Population Growth and Unemployment

[Marslord]

A friend of mine has been playing China in SP and his population growth is at 25 Million a year but his unemployment seems to remain unchanged but the increase of Population should lead to there being more workers available, right?
Also how many workers are needed per facility? Is there a way to see the amount?

[way2co0l]

A facility doesn't actually represent a single facility. It represents an entire district within a city. So building a consumer goods facility is akin to building an entire industrial district in LA. That facility is then capable of employing a fairly large portion of the population depending on many different factors but is rarely static.

Population growth will slowly increase unemployment as long as no new jobs are being created, but you need to remember that it's not just facilities that create jobs. Spending in almost any area will create jobs in the background. Intelligence spending, military construction or deployments, research spending, all of it generates jobs. More importantly, social spending creates a ton of jobs, so the more you put into infrastructure, health care, or whatever else will also continue to employ more of your citizens and this can continue to grow even with population growth as more people means more jobs open up in order to maintain the same level of social spending effects. In addition to all of this, these is also a background level of jobs representing the civilian employment not actually represented by anything else you directly effect such as facilities. You can effect this civilian job market through taxes to an extent where business taxes seem to have the largest effect I think. The more you tax businesses, the fewer of these back end jobs are available and the higher unemployment will go.

[GIJoe597]

I have seen other threads about this, perhaps on Steam. I have commented on them and offered suggestions as to what might be the issue, all seemingly logical, however.

I am playing my very first game in the 1936 start as the USA. On day 3, I built Rubber plants, Oil Wells , Ore Mines etc. Enough to cover the shortfalls. I adjusted my sales tax to 10% and set Social Spending at suggested levels. At start, population was 128,965,465. I watched as immigrants flocked in for years.

The problem I am addressing is my unemployment. For the last 9 years, we have had an influx of around 5 million a year and births of approx 17 million. To counter that, Emigration is approx. 15,000 and Deaths are about 5 million. This is a net growth of about 16 million a year. My unemployment has been steadily shrinking the entire 9 years. I have never built another civilian facility since day three. Unemployment is 2.5% and not rising.

It is now 1945, we have finally decided to stop Hitler as he owns all of Europe, most of Africa and the Far East. Declaring war is two parts, A. to halt Fascism, B. to get workers.

The United Kingdom has fallen, Ireland, Scandinavia, all of Europe most of Africa, parts of SE Asia, Russia is no more. We decide to force a landing in Cork Ireland.

Fast forward to Aug 1946. We own Ireland, The UK, France, The Low Countries, Spain, Italy. As a test, (I have never done it), we liberate and restore Portugal.

But this is not an AAR.

Our current population is 507,476,736. Still have not built any new non military facilities, after 10 years and a 500% population growth, my unemployment is still falling. It is at 2.1%.

Now I have read other threads and yes I have commented in them, but after playing this Era for the first time. Something is fishy.

[YoMomma]

Alot of vague things being said about this, but unemployment is all about social policies and taxes in my opinion. Mainly social policies. Invest in policies and you will drop alot in unemployment. Need more available population, increase domestic prices, lower policies and/or increase taxes.

[GIJoe597]

I have plenty of population, increase of 500%, I was at peace for 9 years, I had suggested spending levels on all Social Programs.. see previous post....


Mr Gezcy;

We all have opinions, I have been having them about SR games since 2008, and my opinion is something is wrong.. I am adding my experience to the info presented in multiple other places.


By the way, not too long after posting this, the game broke. The same thing reported in other threads about supply breaking and getting negative numbers.. I had no where near a large treasury either..

Will start a new game and see what happens over time.


Update: Started a new game, did not touch Taxes, set social spending to suggested level did not build any facilities. I Let the game run for one year, only answering emails, trading, researching and producing military units. After one year, unemployment is continuing to dive, it is down to 2.6.

[Kristijonas]

I think I got the unemployment system.

Clearly unemployment system is NOT based on actual workforce so births, immigration, land annexation WILL NOT help increase your labor force. Unemployment modifier is another silly modifier in this game that depends on other factors that come often with it (but not neceserily)

Long story short, the way to INCREASE labor force is to drastically, manually increase domestic prices. People will go apeshit and GDP/c will decrease fast, but labor force will increase and inflation will decrease. Also probably worth mentioning my taxes are at 70% (equal) and all social spendings are at recommended except family and social are at ~10% Generally speaking, make your people bums while still funding other areas of your country so it doesn't become a shithole. This will make people want to work more

[GIJoe597]

That is not actually increasing your labor force, or raising unemployment. In my opinion, that is simply eliminating jobs. If you raise the prices of commodities, the average person can afford less, meaning the factories have to shed production capability. This leads to more people leaving the jobs sector, which may mimic increasing your unemployment, but you are decreasing your production base. Which in turn decreases your tax base and adds more people to the "welfare" system.

Ultimately this is not indicative of a healthy economy and can have long term consequences.

I would much rather BG state, unequivocally, where these millions and sometimes 10s of millions, in my example above, 100's of millions of people, are "disappearing" to annually?


Point of clarification: my inflation is fine, it is sitting at 4% and I do not consider that unhealthy.

[Kristijonas]

I understand what you're saying but it's not true, really. All my industries are at 100% capacity as they were. Production has not declined. unemployment is now at 2.9%, it was less that 2.5 before. Inflation is 13.7, was up to 30 before.

[GIJoe597]

Have you documented your tax base and social services, before and after?

[Kristijonas]

Nope. But I think you are giving the game more credit that it deserves. It is not as intelligence as it appears. By the way, fun thing. In statistics my economical score is -8130. I'm the only country in the world with negative economical score Meanwhile I'm #1 in treasury, and #6 in GDP/c

[GIJoe597]

I may be giving it more credit, but I am also relaying what I would like to see in the game. Because that is logical. There is zero logic, and therefore zero reason to increase your population, if it does not affect things such as work force. If we carry that thought further, there would be no reason to even track mass migrations if the game engine cares not.

I would be vastly disappointed if that were the case.

[Kristijonas]

I am inclined to believe that is the case In 2010 I remember there was also an immigration control setting where you could decide if you want to close your border or if you only want educated and/or healthy people in etc. Wish this game had more complexity.

[GIJoe597]

I agree, or at least basic logic.

[PleXD]

I may be giving it more credit, but I am also relaying what I would like to see in the game. Because that is logical. There is zero logic, and therefore zero reason to increase your population, if it does not affect things such as work force. If we carry that thought further, there would be no reason to even track mass migrations if the game engine cares not.

I would be vastly disappointed if that were the case.

Just because you do not understand how it works does not mean it is not logical.
Welcome to economics Everything is interconnected. Is the game a real life economic model? No
It is a game economic model that has a basis in real life.

There are many reasons to increase your population. A bigger population with a higher GDP means you can support more research centres, You can support a larger Armed forces, You can support a larger armed forces manufacturing and the supporting industry, Can support a space program, A bigger intelligence program and being able to fund insurgency programs in other countries just to name a few.

Setting up your social spending to recommended is not always the way to go and is just there to guide you. For example why spend more in education when your population is at (or near 100%) literacy? There is some benefits to your research programs but when education is more then 100% efficient then the returns diminish significantly. You would get more benefit from building more research centers then having over 100% efficiency.
This goes for other social spending areas.

[GIJoe597]

Where do you think the people to "man" some of the structures you type about come from? We are typing about lack on bodies to fill jobs, after all. Armed forces and military fabs workers come from military reserves, which no one has an issue with. The issue is the lack of civilians to fill jobs. Even when no additional buildings are built. When you are building a structure, if it says Military Complex, that uses Military Reserves, not Civilians.

The other things you typed have no bearing on population. Funding insurgency only requires money. I can fund insurgencies even if I have zero unemployment. Do not confuse existing Tax Base with lack of new citizens. Again, if I increase the size of my military, (which is not a problem), who will man the oil wells to cover the increased requirement for Petroleum, Military Goods, etc?

This thread is about lack of civilian employees, not taxes or treasury. They are simply one tool we have available to track population and its effects. I think if you rethink what you have typed you may see the issue.



I am starting to think each civilian building type does not have a maximum limit to the number of employees it can "account" for. It would explain why the amount of citizens you have to fill jobs continues to drop, despite no new facilities being built. The game may simply keep plugging people into existing slots. How else could I go from 298 million to over 500 million and not see an increase in labor force.