[Request] Historic Units per Nation?

[Ozi]

I would appreciate a mod (or instructions?) on a mod where every nations only uses their historical Units.

[vahadar]

unfortunatly that is not possible

there are a limited number of region tech codes in the game, some are specific to one country, or a few countries, some include entire region (like west europe), some are worldwide or generic (0 and*), some are remnants of previous games (cuban advance code, havent checked if it is still working in 1936)

so in all there isnt enough region tech code to give every country their historical units, only them can research

you can see that some region codes, like western europe techs, allow some nations to have their historical units. but this doesnt prevent them to research techs from other western europe nations that are also in this group.

edit : I dont know if you can create new region tech code for SR1936, maybe some devs could enlight you on this? if so you would have your problem solved.

edit2 : this was the list for SRCW, i havent checked yet how it is in 1936, but its not on the wiki yet : http://www.supremewiki.com/node/46

[vahadar]

i'l make a new post to be specific

actually there is a way to make units specific for each nations since SRCW : it is to create for each nation in the world a tech that only this nation will own, and that will be non tradable (makes the trick possible).

Make that tech a prerequisite for all the unit for this nation only and job done.

That way, the region tech code wont matter at all, you just need to put it global for every units you add.

Problem is : units can have maximum 2 techs prerequisite and some might already be at this limit, so you would need to rework the tech tree. Adding each unit in units orbats will require 2 tech prerequisite to include : the nation non tradable tech and another tech from tech tree that would normally give the unit when researched.

edit : you would also need to make this tech a pain in the ass to research, so other countries dont start researching it (non tradable tech doesnt mean non researchable tech).
make a high cost for research, huge time, make it a non era tech also, and even give it a prerequisite with one of those advanced future techs you would normally research in the 2000. This way you can be sure AI wont research it

[number47]

edit2 : this was the list for SRCW, i havent checked yet how it is in 1936, but its not on the wiki yet : http://www.supremewiki.com/node/46

in sr1936, region code "X" became Yugoslav region code

[vahadar]

its a huge work anyway

you would need to modify every single units prerequisite for this

oh and this would obviously prevent design trading since you wont be able to trade units that need a tech you cant trade

[Balthagor]

edit2 : this was the list for SRCW, i havent checked yet how it is in 1936, but its not on the wiki yet : http://www.supremewiki.com/node/46

in sr1936, region code "X" became Yugoslav region code

This has been the only change to the system so far.

[vahadar]

Ozi since you also asked for instruction, having in mind the following hints i gave above about adding to each nation a non tradable tech, you should read about unit modding and tech tree modding on the wiki

unit modding :

http://www.supremewiki.com/node/49
and Ruges guide :
http://www.supremewiki.com/node/48

-basically you would need to go through all units to modify their technology prerequisite. most of them would have just 1 tech prerequisite, that would be the tech you need to research to unlock unit in vanilla, so you would just need to add a second tech prereq which would be the national non tradable tech
- you would probably need to make clones of units (with different prereq for nation non tradable tech) since many same designs were used by many different nations. alternatively you could create some "regional" non tradable techs you would give to a group of countries that used the same designs, making this tech a prerequisite for unit.
- finally use the * region tech code (it indicates unit is available worldwide, but it wont in fact thanks to the non tradable tech prerequisite), this would prevent potential conflicts with regional codes when creating a new unit : http://www.supremewiki.com/node/46


creating the nations non tradable techs :

http://www.supremewiki.com/node/53
- make sure the tech level of the non tradable tech you give to each nation is the lowest possible (must be equal or lower than the tech level of the first unit your nation will be able to research when starting from scratch techs, otherwise if an unit tech lvl is lower than that non tradable tech you create as one of the 2 prerequisites for all your units, you will be able to research nothing so forget what i said in previous post about making that tech a high tech era level.
Tech level system changed in SRCW from what it was in SR2020, i havent checked yet how it works in 1936. Someone could confirm?
- there is a "no research" column, so its even easier than i thought to prevent AI from researching it, just make sure you activate this option when creating the tech
- you can give high cost/high time of research but it isnt necessary anymore thanks to the above.
- create a non tradable tech for each nation in the world

and have fun with the amount of editing

[dax1]

maybe OT
is frustrating for small nations to advance in the tech and have no units after developing new technologies. Maybe BG should insert unrealistic units for all nations (region code = *).

[Ozi]

national Units + a deck of "Standard" (but worse/ less specialized) Units would be nice.

[dax1]

worse/ less specialized

yes...I mean that

I was disappointed when I achieve with CW "21st Century Aircraft" and there was no plane to be developed.

[vahadar]

maybe OT
is frustrating for small nations to advance in the tech and have no units after developing new technologies. Maybe BG should insert unrealistic units for all nations (region code = *).

Its not OT at all actually
Thanks to Ozi request i have thought of a system that would both allow his idea of specific units per nations to work, and having a "licencing" system for units to research (with all unit design from every other nation being not open for trade at game start unless you have progress into this licencing system).


Of course you could make the specific tech for each nation that i describe in previous posts just not researchable, but tradable, so this would still allow design trading.
But, this would also mean that once the player has acquired this tech from another nation, he could benefit directly from all units of this nation as he progressed in the tech tree.

So i thought of an era system (inspired by the previous games) that would be specific per nation, and that would allow only a few batch of unit for each era tech. Eras could be a period of 5 years for exemple. Like : era 1890(and before), era 1895, era 1900....

The idea in picture, easier to understand



So we have a country A and a country B.

- The 1st tech prerequisite for units of country A will be the vanilla tech normally required to unlock those specific units.
- Country A will have all era techs ("era 1 A units", "era 2 A units"...) fom the late 1800 to the late 2000s already owned at game start, because those techs will also be the 2nd tech prerequisite for its units. It will also have all licence tech available from game start (licence era 1 A, licence era 2 A...).
- So the player of country A would normally research the vanilla tech tree, and unlock units when they are normally available, era system will be transparent for country A.

Now country B wants to have shiny units from country A. Instead of paying a ridiculously low amount of cash for some units design like it is working now, country B will now need to do 2 things to get units from another nation :
- first B needs to research "licence purchasing tech" that would allow licence trading
- then B needs to buy from country A the "licence era 1 tech" (it cant buy licence era 2 at start, since its not visible until "era 1 A units" is researched). This tech cant be researched.
- once this is done, B has to research the tech "era 1 A units", which is one of the techs prerequisite of country A for lets say units of the period 1890 and before. This tech cant be traded.
- after that B has 2 possibilities : to buy the design directly from country A (along with other prerequisite techs from vanilla) or to research the design himself if country A hasnt researched it.

If B wants to have country A units of 1890-1895 it has to repeat the process. Buy "licence era 2 tech", research "era 2 A units", then buy or research designs from country A.
Era 2 tech licence units have 2 prerequisite, one must be researched by B ("era 1 A units"). the other purchased from A ("licence era 2 A"), so B will always need to progress step by step into the licence era system if it want more advanced units from A, here by researching "era 2 A units".

This would also mean B could research advanced design from A not yet researched by A, only if B is more technologically advanced than A (or if A disregarded that unit), and if it has progress much into A licencing tech tree by purchasing and researching the techs.

This system would allow many things :
- a limited design trading system, you must spend time and money to research those licence trading tech.
- a realistic system with diplomatic relation. If you have bad relations, purchasing the "licence era tech" will be expensive, and reflect the money you put in this to bribe and smooth the deal i know it is the same for design trading in vanilla, but i'm no big fan of being able to acquire design without much efforts.
- a system that would reflect cooperation between country B and A. licence tech will be quite expensive to purchase (in the 250 probably), era tech will be long to research (probably 3-6 months). So it would take 2.5-5 years for country B from 1936 to go from 1890 eras tech to 1940 era tech of country A. This stay realistic. The limit is anyway the progress in vanilla tech tree to unlock units. This must be repeated with each new nations B wants unit from. So a more advanced country B (with many research center) will be able to research more design licencing from multiple countries at same time.
- a system that would prevent country B to have immediatly unit researched by country A like it is in vanilla, unless country B has progressed much into the licencing tech tree and vanilla tech tree.

obviously you would need to modify every unit 2nd prerequisite per nation in the unit file, and add era techs to every nations in the tech file, huge huge work

[Ozi]

thats far more complicated than i was thinking but sounds interesting
My original Goal was for example Germany building their Panzer stuff, UK building their Spitfires and so on but with the other nations beeing able to sell/purchase their nation only stuff if they like (brits building shermans for example) but no building without licensing.

HoI3 had a nice System, maybe it can be of some use: you could gain the license to build a specific number of Units only, something modern world still uses...

[vahadar]

SR cant compete with HOI3 licence system really

I've been thinking for a very long time of a balanced licencing system, if you dont want to go for design trading. But there are 3 problems : how to specify which unit to licence, how to make the trade of unit and how to make the trade repeatable.

Unfortunatly with current events and conditions checks it doesnt seem possible.

The block of text i wrote in previous post was some thoughts i had before but not really put on the paper since yesterday.

Previously i was thinking of a simpler system that would just make a chain of condition tests (event 45s) based on diplomatic ratings, unit count and treasury amount, depending on those tests and on the number of deployed units a player had, he could be proposed unit trade offers.

First engine makes a diplomatic test check with a few major countries (event 45 and Region Diprelationship). If test succeed another test then checks the number of deployed units a player have (per type : land air or sea) with a Regional Stat Test III (i1, i2 or i3 tests), if around a number fixed in advance, engine then make a final test based on player treasury (Regional Stat Test f1), if higher than a value fixed in advance, engine will finally propose to player an event of type 9 (UN Diplomatic Offer Units) where player would be offered to pay for a predefined number or units (land, air or sea depending on previous tests) to buy from this country (even if it is a UN offer it will be proposing units from the contry the diplomatic test was successfull).

The test was made every 30 days, but since i'm not too familiar with repeating tests, i was in fact creating clones of the same test to be done at the beginning of each 30days (with eventtime, and eventtimewind was set for 2 days of test). But it became too complicated and didnt seem to work so i quit, but on the paper it should work

I'm wondering if the "eventpersistcount" can make a single event repeating multiple time persistently, but i dont know how this parameter works, and how to set the time between 2 events checks in this case?

[dax1]

it's more easy add more weak unit with region code "*" where, for specific tech, not a unit for all country!
I'm thinking to make a "default_2.unit" file with worse units for all country..for examplenot all country can develop a unit when achieve Metal Alloy Airframes so I "invented" a unreal weak unit with that tech.