Edit option" support the opposition " + "Fund Insurgency "

[Breznev]

hi folks

I hope this is the right place to put this post.


There are things in the game that BG hasn't long considered !
And I noticed how many inquiries in the forum about these things or these options that I will mention


Support the opposition, And support the rebellion or fund insurgency option

Unfortunately, these two options are not working properly
Or, let's say they need some modification

Depending on what I understand from BG's responses to some questions from members about these options
It is that these options reduce the percentage of popular approval And the approval rate of the army
Of the target country

for exemple if you play as Russia and try to apply this setting against Georgia After several months or years the domestic approval rate and the military approval rate of Georgia , It will gradually decrease until it reaches a dangerous percentage ranging between 1% or 5%
This is according to the value of the financial support it provides to the opposition, as well as to the insurgency

According to the answers of BG in this matter
It says that in the event that the rates of popular approval and army approval continue to decline
The justification for declaring war against you will increase, and in some cases Georgia declare war on you and when you enter the war with it, BG says that some of the military units will surrender and be on your side.
And it is easy to occupy that country !

This frankly does not match reality and logic

It is recommended that BG pay attention to these options
Where we find that these options allow the player to make a coup or revoultion in the target country
make a coup or revolution its logic and And very realistic

The percentage of popular approval and military approval decreased
Usually it leads to a coup or revolution against the ruling regime

It is a simple and practical equation that is not worth analyzing more

Support Opposition + Fund Insurgency = Revolution or a military coup or support opposition To win the elections ( oppositions win elections in case that the target country have a democracy system )

And to further expand the analysis, These options can be restructured as follows :

First Point "Support Oppostion"


for exemple you play as USA and you don't like the government of Vladimir Putin or you have to change the regime in Russia without decalre a war against it , you can enter to the action against and Support the opposition use this option only don't fund insurgency ! you just support opposition

And as we know that in the game, the Russian system has a democratic system, according to what exists in the game
It is quite natural that in the upcoming elections in Russia, for example, the opposition parties will win
Because you have supported her a lot for 3 or 4 years

If you notice with me when using this option
The logical result will be that the existing system in Russia will change and the opposition will win in the upcoming elections

It is very natural that the new system in Russia will be in good terms with the United States of America, where diplomatic rating of russia will be high toward Usa.
And also civialn rating will be high satisfied toward Usa and low casus belli

Even the type of system will remain democratic
Except in the case, for example, Vladimir Putin rejected the election results and transformed the system into a dictatorial regime

I hope this point is understandable to the member brothers, as well as to BG

The second point "Fund Insurgency "


For example, you play as South Korea and you don't like North Korea government , You want to remove Kim Joon Aung from power and change the type of political system in North Korea without declaring a war against it , you just enter action against and you choose fund insurgency in a high fund ( weak, medium, or high. This is up to you as a player )

Here after months and years have passed, the popular approval and approval of the army in North Korea will decrease , When it reaches very low levels, for example, between 5 percent and 10 percent, there will be a notice informing the player that there are rebels who are rebelling against the government.(Such as notifications that come before Fidel Castro arrived to rule in Cuba on CW ) then When the percentage of popular approval and army approval falls below 5 percent

Here the revolution or coup is taking place against Kim Jong Un
The North Korean president changes, the type of system changes, and he becomes a Democrat
Since you are playing as South Korea and S.K system is a democracy , its logical that the new system in North Korea become democracy system


And this logical result in the case of you "Fund Insurgency " against other country , I hope that this point will also be clear to the member brothers, as well as to BG

I wanted more analysis so that my words are clear and my request is understandable, so I mentioned some examples to clarify more about my vision about these options.


The game is very good and realistic
But it lacks measures to support the opposition in democratic and non-democratic countries
It also lacks a support or coup or revolution against any country

My request did not come from lack or imagination
I have seen in the forum a lot of questions about these options
And I noticed that most members prefer to have options that make it easier for him to make a coup or even a revolution in other country


Generally wait for the response and interaction of the members
I hope BG will take this request into account and develop it in the upcoming updates to the game , Or any upcoming updates for the game

[Zuikaku]

I support this. to be honest, I hoped this woul'd be implemented a long time ago but it seems it did not get priority from the devs. Too bad, since this is very realistic feature and woul'd make the game even more fun to play, further increasing replayability value...

[Breznev]

I support this. to be honest, I hoped this woul'd be implemented a long time ago but it seems it did not get priority from the devs. Too bad, since this is very realistic feature and woul'd make the game even more fun to play, further increasing replayability value...

thank you for support
Yes, that's a great advantage
As it will increase the realism of the game more and more
And according to my knowledge of the members questions here in the forum or in Steam groups
Players welcome the presence of such a feature
I hope BG will reconsider these options
Note that most of the strategic games that simulate reality
It has this feature
Support the opposition to win the elections
Or support the insurgency in order to overthrow the government
By popular revolution or coup

Thank you for the comment and for your support , Waiting for some devs member To talk to him about this important topic

[evildari]

not in favor of this - unless you like it to be abused as another way to trade hexes for money.
if that would be used to increase the chance to spawn rebels and/or increase the police/security costs to maintain a specific level - then maybe OK.

In gameplay terms i dont see any value - if i waste a similar or even less amount of money i can get the other government, even if its in the opposite sphere, to a nice 5-block green rating without such issues like promoting a coup or civil war (which i doubt is modeled in the game).
Also IMO its most of the time cheaper to use the money on your army, and then use your army on the target.

[Rosalis]

I agree with evildari. I dont see it become realistic for the AI to use without alot of effort. And if so, then you gonna be targeted by the whole world if your treaty integrity is low. Might aswell just annex North Korea and Iran before game start then. I dont like this feature.

[Breznev]

not in favor of this - unless you like it to be abused as another way to trade hexes for money.
if that would be used to increase the chance to spawn rebels and/or increase the police/security costs to maintain a specific level - then maybe OK.

In gameplay terms i dont see any value - if i waste a similar or even less amount of money i can get the other government, even if its in the opposite sphere, to a nice 5-block green rating without such issues like promoting a coup or civil war (which i doubt is modeled in the game).
Also IMO its most of the time cheaper to use the money on your army, and then use your army on the target.

First, thank you for the response
Finally, some members began to respond to this important topic, according to my humble view

You go against my idea !
On the basis that supporting a military coup in other country or supporting the opposition in other country to win the elections is a huge financial loss
It will make your rankings drop further and bring you to the hostility of countries , You may find your country exposed
For coup or revolution !
Perhaps your words are very logical, but in some cases
But in most other cases you will find that your words are illogical
For example, see if you are playing, for example, on the 2020 map specifically in the phase of GC

For example, if you play as China or Russia , you will find that all countries will be toward blue sphere , Most countries will be heading to blue influence in a year or several months (This is a catastrophic programming error for artificial intelligence and I will not talk about it now because it is not our subject )

In this case, you want to form an alliance to start your war against blue influence
As a first solution and a peaceful solution to avoid low your global rankings and to avoid hostility from other countries and the United Nations
You will support the governments that want to be your ally with financial aid
Certainly, you will spend a lot and a lot of money in the form of aid to some countries and you will support them with some resources such as consumer, military or industrial resources.
And you will continue to spend money in support of governments on the basis of becoming one of these countries in the field of your influence This procedure will require a lot of financial support , To gain the trust of a country to agree to a close alliance with you.
Especially if you choose in the game options : deplomacy relation in normal , and world volatiliy in high or verry high !

Here also about your use of this procedure, my brother, you will spend a tremendous amount of money at the expense of your economy and at the expense of your treasury, which is certain that it will not be stable or will witness certain disturbances in some periods


Here you can notice that this procedure is very expensive and its costs will be much higher than the costs of supporting a military coup or supporting the opposition to win elections in the country that you want to be under your influence


We are now coming to use the war, which you was said will have less costs than supporting a military coup or supporting the opposition to win the elections

We stay in the same country which is China
Your target is South Korea, Japan, India and maybe the rest of Central Asia
you will wage war on these countries during certain periods
You know very well that from the time the war is launched, your international rankings will decrease, the rest of the countries will take a negative attitude towards you and the war, and your relations with the rest of the countries will deteriorate.
I think you know this very well

We now come to the financial losses that you said will be few. For example, the war against South Korea will be very difficult ( AI south korea very difficult , The reason for this is that the artificial intelligence of South Korea
Programmed on the basis of great power. Where many times South Korea launches war on its northern neighbor, then on China, then on Russia
The strange thing is that the artificial intelligence of North Korea is very strong and capable of invading all of Asia
This is also a software error for AI, and I don't want to talk about it now)


Well, your war against South Korea has started
The first losses that you will receive are a decrease in your global ranking, a deterioration of your relations with countries, and other countries will take a stand against you from your behavior.
And not to mention financial, economic, and military losses

The longer the war, the more it will drain your treasury more and more
youl will put all your military factories in an extreme situation ( production 100% militry unit )
As it will lead to the depletion of your military factories, which will inevitably lead to losses in industrial and military resources

You will find yourself importing some resources
Not to mention the losses in the infrastructure of your industrial and military factories
And you know South Korea is a very strong military in the 2020 maps
You may find yourself in a war against South Korea and some of its allies
And maybe another country will decalre a war against you
I wonder , what you will do about that time
I wonder , if the costs of this war are less than the costs of supporting a military coup in South Korea or supporting the opposition in order to win the elections and be in the new government in your sphere of influence.

Logic, my brother in these cases says that
That costs of Supporting the opposition, a military coup, or a popular revolution in a country Less than the costs of declaring war or engaging in war with states in order to change their regimes


Maybe your idea succeeds
In the event that you declare war against relatively small countries that are not economically and militarily strong
Perhaps you are playing with options ( normal or low military , normal or low deplomacy relation , normal or low economy )


You say that such options will push the AI to the rest of the countries to apply it against your country
For example, the artificial intelligence of India supports the opposition or rebellion in your country( you play as China )
and you will find yourself facing popular movements that want revolution or military disobedience and a military coup.

There is a solution here and the solution is very simple and is very logical and realistic as well
In this case, you, like China, will first work to keep the people's approval high and the army's approval high , spend a good money or put it at recommended on law enforcement
When you applying these procedures well
Your country will not be overthrown by coups or revoltuion !


For example, you may tell me that my request was unrealistic and did not happen on the real world

Here I answer you simply it is very realistic
I give you some examples in this regard
Russian intelligence interferes and supports Donald Trump in previous elections by sabotaging and leaking some documents related to candidate Hillary Clinton

The United States of America launched a coup against the democratic government in Guatemala by supporting an army official

The United States of America supported General Pinochet in Chile and carried out a coup against the Allende government

The Soviet Union supported the revolutionaries in North Yemen, where it revolted against the monarchy in 1962 with support from the Soviet Union

The support of the United States of America to the opposition Juan Guaido in Venezuela, which put the country in chaos, and Juan Guaido imposed its conditions on the legitimate President Nicholas Maduro

The Republic of Laos and Cambodia supported the Viet Cong fighters during their war against South Vietnam

There are many, many examples in this regard, but I do not want to mention them all

My request was not from this lack
Rather, it was the result of many reviews I made in the forum, as well as in the questions section of the Steam groups
As many and many players want this feature in the game
Because it is a good and realistic feature, in addition to that, it will increase the game’s realism more and more
Finally, I am sorry for the prolonged reply
Because I wanted to analyze more and more so the idea would be crystal clear to the members as well as the BG
Thanks for your reply

[Breznev]

I agree with evildari. I dont see it become realistic for the AI to use without alot of effort. And if so, then you gonna be targeted by the whole world if your treaty integrity is low. Might aswell just annex North Korea and Iran before game start then. I dont like this feature.

Thank you for your response

You say that such options will push the AI to the rest of the countries to apply it against your country
For example, the artificial intelligence of India supports the opposition or rebellion in your country( you play as China )
and you will find yourself facing popular movements that want revolution or military disobedience and a military coup.

There is a solution here and the solution is very simple and is very logical and realistic as well
In this case, you, like China, will first work to keep the people's approval high and the army's approval high , spend a good money or put it at recommended on law enforcement + spend a good money in your military = high MAR & high DAR
When you applying these procedures well
Your country will not be overthrown by coups or revoltuion !

A very simple and realistic equation that does not turn a blind eye

low MAR & low DAR ( Low at the lowest level ) = revolution or coup d'etat against the current government


low DAR ( Low at the lowest level) = the oppostion will win the elections , and the current govermnet party will losse in case that the target is a democarcy country

1-Revolution or Coup D'etat :

in case you play as democracy government and your target country is communism , theocracy , Monarchy , dictatorship government.
You support the opposition and fund insurgency , And when DAR & MAR decrease to low percentages
Here a popular revolution, or military coup, takes place
the result is regime change and turn into a democratic system, as you are playing a democratic system

if you play as dictatorial government the result is the new regim change and turn into a dictatorial system

if you play as communism government the result is the new regim change and turn into a communism system

And that applies to the rest of the systems ( theocracy , monarchy ..)

the new government it can break all the treaty with other country , It will change the political orientation of the new government


2-Support the opposition to win the elections

The target countries are the democratic countries, of course , In this case, you will only support the opposition
choose a democracy country and enter action against click on support opposition .

The success of your support to the opposition will be linked on DAR , if the DAR will drops a lot
Of the target country , And the date for the elections has come, where you will see through the information attached to the word democracy a small yellow triangle that tells you the status of parties in these elections.
With a lower DAR , the opposition will win in the elections .

The government changes here, The image of the president changes, and the new government becomes in good terms with you
By decreasing the causes of war , And the satisfaction of the people of that country with your country
and the new government it can break all the treaty with other country , It will change the political orientation of the new government
To be the opposite of the political orientation of the previous government



Finally, I have explained to you my idea in some lines without going into more depth and analysis
As you know, the game is a simulation of reality and geopolitics
And these options that I am talking about are realistic options, and fall within the geopolitical conflicts and have happened in the real world many times
As I mentioned in my reply to the member " evildari "

[Rosalis]

I notice your native language is not English, but you do a very good job explaining it.

Reality is the game is not ready for this feature. Player will know how to counter it (already need 90-100% law enforcement) and like you replied to evildari there are already issues with current features. I would promote making rebels stronger, because right now they are just annoyance, but then again a dev response would be its easy to counter just spend money on law enforcement and military approval. In other ways its a player feature ment to screw over the AI. If AI was competent at managing their economy, and economy would be tight it would be one thing, but you can easily make trillions as player. Making it work for player is one thing, letting the AI use it effective is a whole other.

I am ok with suport opposition so i can make more volatility by playing other regions in multiplayer, but i couldnt imagine AI using this feature effectively, without just making stronger what is already there AKA blue sphere. What would be more interesting to me is when neutral ai regions try to get to the smallest sphere, especially since its been an issue for so long. Maybe the low gdp/c and resources can help them choosing red sphere. Easy migrant and cheap resources. Right now you often dont even have the choice, your region will just turn blue even removing all the treaties with them. For example i was neutral South Africa, annexed a couple of regions which turned blue next to me and all of sudden i was blue sphere. Removed treaties before hand with US and UK, suported ruling party in Russia and China, all it did was nothing. Similair game with Syria, where i started with Russia alliance, helped them in proxy wars, and then they declared war on me because i turned blue.

If this feature was ever implemented it should give big penalties when caught and opposing region+alliance get alot of CB against you.

[Breznev]

I notice your native language is not English, but you do a very good job explaining it.

Reality is the game is not ready for this feature. Player will know how to counter it (already need 90-100% law enforcement) and like you replied to evildari there are already issues with current features. I would promote making rebels stronger, because right now they are just annoyance, but then again a dev response would be its easy to counter just spend money on law enforcement and military approval. In other ways its a player feature ment to screw over the AI. If AI was competent at managing their economy, and economy would be tight it would be one thing, but you can easily make trillions as player. Making it work for player is one thing, letting the AI use it effective is a whole other.

I am ok with suport opposition so i can make more volatility by playing other regions in multiplayer, but i couldnt imagine AI using this feature effectively, without just making stronger what is already there AKA blue sphere. What would be more interesting to me is when neutral ai regions try to get to the smallest sphere, especially since its been an issue for so long. Maybe the low gdp/c and resources can help them choosing red sphere. Easy migrant and cheap resources. Right now you often dont even have the choice, your region will just turn blue even removing all the treaties with them. For example i was neutral South Africa, annexed a couple of regions which turned blue next to me and all of sudden i was blue sphere. Removed treaties before hand with US and UK, suported ruling party in Russia and China, all it did was nothing. Similair game with Syria, where i started with Russia alliance, helped them in proxy wars, and then they declared war on me because i turned blue.

If this feature was ever implemented it should give big penalties when caught and opposing region+alliance get alot of CB against you.

Firstly, thank you for the response
At least I found one of the members I can talk to about this idea

Second , you are right my native language is not English ahahaha , But I try to learn it well
And I hope that my words are well understood by you and the rest of the members

Generally my brother
I have long looked at the forum and noticed that there are some players who wish to have an option that would allow them to carry out revolutions or coups in other countries ,
Without creat an event or mod and event !

My request is that there be options that allow us to assist some revolutionaries in other countries or to support people rebels to carry out a popular revolution
Or support the opposition to win the elections , This is also not a personal request, but rather a request of many players
Check out the Suggestions or other sections of the forum and you will find that many players question these options

for exemple this : http://bgforums.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=21767
And I can include other examples of member questions

Of course, it would not be an easy choice to stage a coup, support a revolution, or support the opposition in another country
There must be a specific criterion for the success of these options

for exemple : if DAR low at 5 % or below = revolution or opposition win the elections
if MAR low at 5 % or below = coup d'etat

These conditions can be programmed and determined from game files , So that the task is not so easy
In another language
Here, conditional values will be placed In the game files
Taking the conditional values as a criterion for the success of the revolution, the coup d'etat or others


I was searched in the site supreme ruler wiki for any solution for my request
And I found this section : https://supremeruler.gamepedia.com/NewsItems
As I understood, I found that coups and revolutions could be programmed
As random events , Conditional values can be set in order for the coup or revolution to take place
These are the values : CivAprAdj & MilAprAdj , CreateBy
CivAprAdj : Here you can set the minimum DAR which will be as a condition for the action of coupt or revolution or opposition win elections
MilAprAdj : Here you can set the minimum MAR which will be as a condition for the action of coupt or revolution
CreateBy : here you can enter 0 = [Human Player] or 1 = News System or 2 = Another AI Player

And as I understood , After you put these conditions and put them in the game file Named NewsItems

This option will become automatic, Provided that these conditions are met
And these conditions are met
If you target a specific country and teach the option to support the insurgency
And support the opposition, and when the value of the military or popular approval reaches the number it set in the programming as a condition
Revolution or coup will happen

It remains only to find a way
To change the image of the targeted head of state if he is lost in the elections ( in case i support the opposition & the oppostion win the elections ) in 2020 maps and the other maps the leader portrait don't change Although he lost in the elections
And changed his political orientations , the same as a overthrow the government by coup d'etat

Which I will look for later and sure that it exists and can be programmed to run automatically



I will try this soon
I just need some time to understand how to write the code line
There is a program that helps with that
But I will understand the values that can be set and the software variables , If i succeed in that
There is no need to order this thing from BG


Generally, thank you for the response
And I hope that my language is clear and understandable
Thank you