Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

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Traslogan
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Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

#1 Post by Traslogan » Jun 18 2019

Hey folks,

So I've noticed that the AI for auto-building nukes will *always* make nukes if he has available designs if your country has already used nukes or the country started with nuclear weapons firing being enabled. Turning their firing permission off again will not change this, and the AI continues to build nukes regardless, rendering the Missile Prod AI somewhat obsolete. In countries like the USA / Soviet Union who can start with Nuke Firing allowed, this makes their AI always want to make nukes as soon as the cold war starts kick off. I think this is probably part of why some AI countries like to spam nukes in such numbers, but it's a problem for the player too.

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Re: Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

#2 Post by Balthagor » Jun 18 2019

We'll investigate
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Re: Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

#3 Post by Supremo_man » Jun 20 2019

After looking into the issue, I've determined that the AI does not build Nukes exclusively (although if allowed they will prefer to build them). Basically the AI is doing exactly what it should be and you just need to change the permissions for Nuclear Weapons. Below I've listed 2 ways to prevent the AI from building Nukes.

1) Easy Way: go into Defense-Production -> Alert Condition, and set Nuclear Weapons Permission to Off. This will prevent nukes from being built.
2) Less Easy Way: Double click each Nuclear Missile design and set the design to being excluded (BTW, this can be done for any design).

If you have any ideas on how you think the AI should go about building missiles, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

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Re: Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

#4 Post by YoMomma » Jun 20 2019

.
Last edited by YoMomma on Jun 30 2019, edited 1 time in total.
Gameplay 1st

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Re: Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

#5 Post by Balthagor » Jun 20 2019

It should be noted that the AI was not building ONLY nukes, it just really liked a lot of nukes. It did build other missile types as well.
YoMomma wrote:
Jun 20 2019
Max 20% of capacity should be reserved for nuclear if available, else exploit is too big with AI putting their strongest units in strategic pool.
I'd consider that a fair suggestion, but would like to hear a bit of what other users think. If we can get a few more opinions on this (even if just supporting YoMomma's suggestion), I'll see if we can increase the priority of this issue for the next update.
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Re: Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

#6 Post by Traslogan » Jun 20 2019

Oh of course the AI should build nukes, but I would agree that some kind of cap would be nice.

Obviously I'm not aware of the inner workings of the game's source-code, but a peacetime cap plus a wartime cap would make sense imo. 25% and 50%? Otherwise some kind of in the middle of like 33% rounded. That still means the great behemoths like Russia and the USA are crapping out nukes like no tomorrow, but at least they will wage a proper missile war before the player escalates it to nuclear (I've never seen an AI nuke first, idk if it's possible).

Also yeah the AI was building other stuff, just in incomparable numbers. I'd have like 24 missile slots, and 3 or 4 would be not nukes (It was like it would take a chance to pick a nuke, and because they take so long, everything slowly becomes a nuke slot after it picks normal missiles once or twice), which is a problem that affects the player too if they pick a nation that has nukes enabled before they start the game, or if they already fired a nuke, as it just breaks the advisor into making nukes no matter your settings.


I just saw the dev's response in the middle, and I think it's incorrect. Once you've fired nuclear missiles or if you start with them enabled, the AI ignores the nuclear toggle. I could set to excluded to stop it as that will work, but surely that's one awkward workaround for the AI ignoring the toggle that should do it.

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Re: Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

#7 Post by YoMomma » Jun 21 2019

.
Last edited by YoMomma on Jun 30 2019, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

#8 Post by YaYo7 » Jun 29 2019

Year 1966. Cold War.
I went through the multiplayer(savegame) and watched what the AI was doing. In my opinion, AI has too many strategic bombers in STP: 422(SQ)x12=5064. I think ~200 would be enough to contain. When playing for the USSR, I have only 50(50x12=600) squadrons of Tu-95MS equipped with missiles and bombs.
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Re: Automatic Missile Production will always build nukes after nukes have been used or country can use them by default

#9 Post by YaYo7 » Jun 29 2019

Need some kind of benchmark for the AI to which he will strive.

example
For peacetime, strategic forces should be composed of
bombers: 50sq with missiles and boms.
SSBN's : 20 units with ICBMs.
Silo's : with 50-100 ICBMs.

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