Map Errata - Port Arthur

[suaske666]

Shouldn't Port Arthur belong to japan, not Manchuria? as far as I know it was never a part pf Manchuria. it used to be Russian, and then was given to japan after the ruso japanese war. i don't recall the Japanese ever actually giving it back (obviously after ww2 had ended). Zuikaku, am I right here?

[Balthagor]

If so, please provide supporting evidence

[suaske666]

will this do?

Honestly there isn't much. wikipedia only goes as far as to say the russians gave it up to japan, and left Manchuria. what japan did with it is not mentioned. but i have seen maps always depicting it as a japanese base, and there is no evidence it was ever part of Manchuria.
i'll post more maps
http://japanfocus.org/-Anne-Booth/2418
here is one that says 1939, and though no border is drawn between the port and the mainland, they did write the name. http://www.zonu.com/fullsize-en/2009-12 ... -1939.html

[suaske666]

Any feedback on this yet?

[Balthagor]

Haven't heard anything from the rest of the team, map work isn't my area for this project.
19127

[BattleGoat]

" Japan leased the area from Manchukuo after establishing the puppet state in 1932. In 1937, as the Second Sino-Japanese War began, Japan enlarged and modernized the trade zone as two cities: the northern Dairen (Dalian) and the southern Ryojun (Port Arthur or Lüshun)"

Since it wasn't a Military Base, but rather just a trade zone, it really doesn't need to be separated as Japanese territory within Manchukuo.

[suaske666]

if you say so. the fact is it was part of japan and not manchuria. it was not in any manchurian adminitrative area. it didn't have manchurian flags on any of the buildings. these cities were part of the empire of japan, just like Korea.
Gameplay wise it doesn't make much of a difference, but since those hexes exist, I don't see why they are part of manchuria.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo

[geminif4ucorsair]

" Japan leased the area from Manchukuo after establishing the puppet state in 1932. In 1937, as the Second Sino-Japanese War began, Japan enlarged and modernized the trade zone as two cities: the northern Dairen (Dalian) and the southern Ryojun (Port Arthur or Lüshun)"

Since it wasn't a Military Base, but rather just a trade zone, it really doesn't need to be separated as Japanese territory within Manchukuo.

This is not correct....it was a Military Base. The Japanese continued to use the Fortress, which dated back to the period of Russian occupation of the peninsula. It was also critical, for since the days of the Russo-Japanese war (1904-05), Port Arthur and Dairen (Dalny, Dalian) had importance at the southern extreme of the then-Russian railway system (South Manchurian RR). From the earliest Russian days, several forts were maintained there, including the seaward facing (east coast) peninsula - commonly called the "Tigers Tail" area -as well as others facing southward covering Nicolas Bay. It does in fact, belong to Japan
[not Manchukuo]. Port Arthur was call "Ryojun".

Even Hector Bywater's Seapower in the Pacific book (1921; Constable and Co., Ltd; London) denotes Port Arthur as a Japanese naval base.


FURTHER, if you examine the treaty between Russia and Japan, 1905, the whole Liaoning (Liaotung) Peninsula - was ceded to Japan!

PORT ARTHUR was established under the Ryojun Guard District, headquartered at Ryojun. These were equivalent to the other Naval District's, such as Kure Naval District, Yokosuka Naval District, Hainan Naval District, etc. during the war. It was part of the Imperial Japanese Army (IJA) 3rd Area Army (Hqd: Mukden), under General Ushiroku Jun.

However, prior to 1931 (seizure of Manchuria), it was Headquarters, Kwangtung Army, thru August 1931.
Notable General (Baron) Honjo Shigeru was Commander-in-Chief, Kwangtung Army at the time (not at the headquarters when the
infamous "Manchurian Incident" and subsequent military action of 18-19 September). Shigeru is better know for his promotion to the Supreme War Council the following year and promotion to Peerage; the year following ('33) was chief aid-de-camp to Emperor Hirohito; he resigned his commission in Spring 1936, after his son was involved in the "2-26 Insurrection" events.

My view:
1] Liaoning Peninsula - Japanese Territory;
2] Port Arthur: Military Complex - Sea Port [this included shipbuilding drydocks & marine RR];
Barracks - Ryojun was a Special Base Force facility for Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) (marines) during the war; last commander
there was Vice-Admiral YAMAGUCHI Gisaburo (Chisaburo).....who also signed the surrender of all naval troops and ships in southern
Korea (below 38th Parallel) at Keijo (Seoul), 9Sep45.

Hope this helps.

[Zuikaku]

Shouldn't Port Arthur belong to japan, not Manchuria? as far as I know it was never a part pf Manchuria. it used to be Russian, and then was given to japan after the ruso japanese war. i don't recall the Japanese ever actually giving it back (obviously after ww2 had ended). Zuikaku, am I right here?

Sorry ,I've noticed this thread too late, becoming so obsessed with SUT that I skip all the map errata issues

Yes, as Gemini said, Port Arthur should belong to Japan, not Manchuria.