How about a realistic USA?

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lacer1111
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How about a realistic USA?

#1 Post by lacer1111 » Feb 27 2019

Why isn't there a realistic USA sandbox mode? They only ever attack Mexico and Cuba on the right settings. USA are at war with more countries than any other yet they do nothing in this game. With over 800 military bases worldwide I would like to see that translate into the game too. Their troops should be every where and declaring wars world wide as they do in reality. And finally with the more than likely soon to be Venezuela war can we get an update patch to play that out. Thank you

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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#2 Post by YoMomma » Feb 27 2019

+1

Im really cloose to be happy with my mod. I add US bases in Japan, Germany, Italy and Israel. Issue i have now is Germany and US roleplaying Nazi Germany and are way too strong. No one dares to attack Germany. I just wish that after a certain time rst of the regions form a coalition to take out the threat. It kinda works with proxy wars, but still some fine tuning could be done.
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#3 Post by Balthagor » Feb 27 2019

Realistic is a very vague statement, I'm not sure where you'd have us begin. Are we talking relationships? Do you have specific relationship changes you'd suggest we add?

Pre-positioning forces around the world is very time consuming work, so uses up a lot of resources and we don't have many resources to go around.
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#4 Post by YoMomma » Feb 27 2019

Pre-positioning forces would be a waste. If theres no war troops get send to loyal hexes.
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#5 Post by lacer1111 » Feb 27 2019

I would like to see the US declaring wars and then sending troops en masse. Russia and China declare war on heaps of countries in the game, can't the US do the same? (sandbox mode option)

Also I play a lot with Australia and find it impossible to get China or any country to try and invade. In an attempt to get China to try and take over Australia I've defeated all nations leading up to China's border. I then retreat allowing China to take over those countries. They always get stuck in Malaysia and don't cross the narrow ocean over to Indonesia.

I'm playing on mac so I think mods are not an option for me.

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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#6 Post by YoMomma » Feb 27 2019

One of the problems with China is once they get to descent infantry, it doesnt got the disembark option, so unable to properly land in a port with garrisons or other units in it. Besides economy is totally broken for China because of high population. I always find them in need for cash as is India. I think the range on when units get send is improved in the latest patch tho.

Also in my mod because of the bases, units get send, proxy wars take place and US will take over. In my recent game i had to take control of Russia to stop them. I released all of europe and kept US bases in Germany since i wasnt at war with US, then took control of another country and US took it all over again because they had fought those regions before in proxy wars with Germany. So yeah its possible. Range is a big thing tho and in my opinion bases with treaties was the easy fix on what im capable to do.
One other fact about that game, Germany took over all of europe except Italy. I thought that was pretty cool since there were US bases there. If you really take time to put in the proper treaties for everyone, you get a pretty realistic feel. But yeah no help whatsoever. I can say tho, if allies can share bases, it would be great for gameplay, as long red sphere isnt weakened like now.
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#7 Post by Balthagor » Feb 27 2019

lacer1111 wrote:
Feb 27 2019
I would like to see the US declaring wars and then sending troops en masse. Russia and China declare war on heaps of countries in the game, can't the US do the same? (sandbox mode option)...
The decisions to declare war are based on relationships and influences. If you'd like a "more aggressive" US, you'd need changes to the relationships.

Who in the map do they like "too much". Or, who do they like "not enough" that they should hop into a war to help defend?
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#8 Post by YoMomma » Feb 28 2019

US shouldnt "hop" into wars. US make wars. Following your answer should we see war declarations on N Korea, China and Russia? Im trying to help and fix you know, not look for excuses.
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#9 Post by Balthagor » Feb 28 2019

That would actually be a good place to start. Consider the starting relationships between those regions, see if you think we should tweak something...
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#10 Post by YoMomma » Feb 28 2019

Hmm allright, well out of more then 1000 games i never saw US declare war on those 3, they pretty much always have 100% CB, since those 3 countries honor the goal of the game and declare war all the time. With -2 relations pretty much all the time that should say something dont you think?

In 3 scenarios i had US declare war on regions outside of America.
1. Fistalis modern mod, which is broken now
2. A mod where i put Guatemala and Nicaraqua as puppets of Russia and China
3. In mod im working on now, with example above.

The war declarations also take range into account apparently. Same with treaties, so if US doesnt have treaties, they will never fight outside america. And just treaties isnt enough, since the wars will be over once US troops arrive. Theres a reason US got 800 foreign bases you know.

After doing my research, i decided Japan should have 4 US bases, 2 airbases, 1 barracks and 1 seaport. Airbase in Germany with barracks, sea port in Italy and radar station in Israel. I basicly ignored the bases in South Korea since that would mean US will dominate every game with weak troops of N Korea and China.
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#11 Post by Balthagor » Feb 28 2019

YoMomma wrote:
Feb 28 2019
Hmm allright, well out of more then 1000 games i never saw US declare war on those 3, they pretty much always have 100% CB, since those 3 countries honor the goal of the game and declare war all the time. With -2 relations pretty much all the time that should say something dont you think?
That's only one state. What's the CivRelate/Diprelate and what are the common or different influence values that are set. To know that last one, you'd have to go digging in data files. It's not exactly a simple system.
YoMomma wrote:
Feb 28 2019
The war declarations also take range into account apparently.
That is true, that could be having some impact on them not getting into wars. I'll admit, I don't currently have an idea how we tweak that system without causing some nonsensical DoWs.
YoMomma wrote:
Feb 28 2019
After doing my research, i decided Japan should have...
We don't have a way to model bases in the territory of other regions. We would have to give the US a hex for each of the cases you suggest and I'm not in support of that plan at this time.
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#12 Post by YoMomma » Mar 01 2019

Yes, its only 1 region and i know about the influence thing. But imho US vs Russia, N korea and China, i dont think i need to give you their influence values. But your correct its only 1 region, same counts towards the other way tho. Never seen N Korea, China or Russia declare war on US in a vanilla game.

That's perfectly fine by me, i dont need your help. I actually told you about the negative side, like super strong Germany. Im just saying these topics that pop up about unit designs, 'passive' US, etc, i was complaining about them alone 3-4 years ago. You can disagree, but i would think you like to sell a couple of copies in a few year too and really get the most out of the game. Some see balance as a terrible thing, but if theres no balance, theres gonna be uneven wars/spheres with scenarios you can pretty much predict every game.

Giving hexes to US, wouldnt actually be giving, US took those hexes often willingly of the region they are loyal too. Poland actually want to pay US for a permanent military base in rl right now. Giving US those bases and respective treaties and red sphere the treaties, would actually balance out alot of things, make wars longer, more regions fight, so loose units, so game speed will remain better for a longer period. Also instead of hundreds of ships in reserve for US, they will spread arround the world like rl.

Anyway i gave my opinion and leave it to the rest. I definetely understand the issue with long range war declarations, and that's why i brought it up. On the other way, if US declare war on China, we all know who's gonna help. Thats why the ultimate solution would be shared allied bases, not for reserve, but for repairs. Like the naval port of Djibouti against Somalian pirates, or Jordan airbase against Isis.
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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#13 Post by lacer1111 » Mar 02 2019

Balthagor wrote:
Feb 27 2019
lacer1111 wrote:
Feb 27 2019
I would like to see the US declaring wars and then sending troops en masse. Russia and China declare war on heaps of countries in the game, can't the US do the same? (sandbox mode option)...
The decisions to declare war are based on relationships and influences. If you'd like a "more aggressive" US, you'd need changes to the relationships.

Who in the map do they like "too much". Or, who do they like "not enough" that they should hop into a war to help defend?
I would like to see them aggressive against China, Russia, Venezuela and several middle eastern countries. I would like them to defend Japan, U.K, Australia and France. The U.S is unlike any other country. With over 800 bases world wide perhaps you should consider giving them a hex in several countries. There are many sandbox 2020 modes. Adding a new one incorporating this would be great. The more options and unique user experiences the better :)

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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#14 Post by lacer1111 » Mar 07 2019

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_w ... ted_States

This is a long list of wars the US has been apart of and in many cases started. There literally hasn't been a time of non combat for decades. That by far surpasses any other nation. So again I think you should create a NEW sandbox mode such as (trump/world at war ect) that accurately depicts the real US and how aggressive they are world wide. China and Russia declare wars on a dozen countries very quickly in many settings. Please correct this for the US.

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Re: How about a realistic USA?

#15 Post by YoMomma » Mar 07 2019

Why a new sandbox and not a right sandbox? There are even already 2 US focused sandboxes.
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