Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide

[Micheal]

A cruel potential feature in game but also a true one according to history... We should also include ethnicity's to allow this feature...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

WW2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust Germany against the Jews
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre Japan against the Chinese
http://www.rootsinternational.net/ethio ... caust.html Italy against the Ethiopians

Even Russia attempted to do this to Ukrainians for 400 years and they were somewhat successful because Ukraine is divided East and West.
Stalins time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

This is a feature that even Paradox hasn't implemented. And come on it just a game...

[Balthagor]

These will not be added to the game. We have said before it would not be added.

[Micheal]

Can I have a link where this was said?

[Zuikaku]

This is all put wrong from the start. If we are talking about hex loyalies, it woul'd be cool feature if they could change from time to time depending on government type, GDP, taxation, immigration, emmigration and social spendings. Rarely and over time hexes should be able to switch loyalty. We are not talking about criminal methods here.

[GreenGoblin]

We are not talking about criminal methods here.

On the contrary, it seems that is what the OP is talking about.

[Balthagor]

Can I have a link where this was said?

the only way I could find it is to use the search in the top right of the screen. You're welcome to try it for yourself.

[Micheal]

Can I have a link where this was said?

the only way I could find it is to use the search in the top right of the screen. You're welcome to try it for yourself.

Okay... Why wont Battlegoat studios allow this?

[Zuikaku]

Okay... Why wont Battlegoat studios allow this?

You are talking about changing hex loyalties, right??

[number47]

Okay... Why wont Battlegoat studios allow this?

How about "business decision"? The same way they decided not to implement nacionalsocialist German flag...

[GreenGoblin]

I have said this before. Just use A-bombs.

[Anthropoid]

Can I have a link where this was said?

the only way I could find it is to use the search in the top right of the screen. You're welcome to try it for yourself.

Okay... Why wont Battlegoat studios allow this?

Because it is a game, not a history book or a documentary.

If you want that type of historical accuracy in your game, you'd need to add it yourself or find a mod that adds it.

It is standard practice in contemporary strategy games that deal with controversial, painful, incendiary and potentially litigious issues of recent history to NOT include the content that can be misconstrued as support or criticism for a particular position one way or another.

Same reason you will not find any games that include non-user made content that specifically deals with the Final Solution, the holocaust, the Rape of Nanking, the Holodomor or a host of other recent atrocities which are still too recent to consider them strictly historical.

[Kristijonas]

Actually just recently, Battlegoat Studios themselves have decided a change of loyalty is in order in game, which proves that it happens and happens peacefully. I'm talking about Scotland. I remember there was Scottish loyalty for UK, but now it no longer exists. I suppose because of referendum + little to no violent/radical separatism.
I'm quite sure the reason for not implementing possibility to change loyalty is a technical one, because if it was easily possible, they would probably simply make it as a selectable choice. Personally, I would really like this. It would add one more layer of strategy and would add more meaning to cultural expenditure. Genocide/ethnic cleansing is really not needed and so last century. It happened in 20st century, but it no longer happens in 21st. Today loyalties change by public relations, media, prestige, money, popularity. If someone attempts an ethnic cleansing to any extent today, it only leads to unification of the culture that is being 'cleansed' therefore it's counter-productive more than it works. The only examples of this happening are in low-tech countries in Africa and middle-east, mostly done by factions that matter little in the first place. Even China stopped cultural discrimination and even allows their own minorities (even Tibetans) to have more than one child, while the majority, Han Chinese, may only have one. So even a country like China, that does not have to listen to anyone, wisely adapted to the realities of today, where loyalty is a much broader term.

TL:DR: In contemporary world, loyalty changes through propaganda, not genocide. Adding loyalty changing mechanisms to the game is probably a technical problem, not an ethical one. Games engine is not known for its flexibility.

[Aragos]

Okay... Why wont Battlegoat studios allow this?

How about "business decision"? The same way they decided not to implement nacionalsocialist German flag...

Exactly. If you include genocide in a game (which, let's all be honest here, is CREEPY...you might as well include the 'Rape' order for your troops while you are at it), it results in immediate banning from many European markets, and most likely others as well.

[Aragos]

Actually just recently, Battlegoat Studios themselves have decided a change of loyalty is in order in game, which proves that it happens and happens peacefully. I'm talking about Scotland. I remember there was Scottish loyalty for UK, but now it no longer exists. I suppose because of referendum + little to no violent/radical separatism. <snip>
TL:DR: In contemporary world, loyalty changes through propaganda, not genocide. Adding loyalty changing mechanisms to the game is probably a technical problem, not an ethical one. Games engine is not known for its flexibility.

I think K makes a great point here.

The best solution, IMHO, is to boost up some of the post-2000 techs to allow for this--like those related to Propaganda. They already have negative global effects, but could be tweaked to increase/decrease loyalty or just boost up popular support (which sort of does the same thing).

[Balthagor]

As mentioned, this won't be modeled in any way. I'm closing the discussion here.