Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
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Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
[Edit by moderator: Thread is now sticky. In this thread, please only propose changes that are supported in the current engine. If your suggestion is for a new feature, look for an existing thread on the topic or start a new thread please.]
By: Balthagor
Some points when offering suggestions;
- if you mention a location, please find the x,y coordinates
- "foreign bases" only works if region A should own an area 16km x 16km at that location. We don't model leasing bases so such requests should be made elsewhere
- when listing real world treaties, please list also which in game treaties you think can used to represent those. If there isn't an in game equivalent, that also becomes a topic for a new thread.
hopefully xeeks can update the OP to reflect consensus in these discussions.
*Purpose of these changes are to make World 2020 as realistic as Real World.
*Much of the changes are Similar to GC - 2020 But There are some differences. But first some basic questions.
[1] In GC-2020 Europe has 41 Regions While World 2020 has 39 (What are those missing regions from World 2020?)
[2] In GC-2020 Central America has 20 Regions While World 2020 has 21 Regions (Again Missing Region in GC-2020 and what is that region and why?)
*Before we start off with proposed changed most important change is ADDING Half-World Alliances like (NATO - /CSTO/SCO/BRICS). When the game starts members of these organizations should be allied with each other.
*Apart from Organizational Alliances, US-Israel should be Allied as in real world they share a separate alliances (In-Case of attack on Israel US is obliged help Israel as per agreements made between two nations - Mutual Defence)
Libya
-Change Libyan FLAG (World 2020 has old Libyan Flag)
-Dictatorship to Democracy
-Aligned towards Allies (US)
India
-Neutral
-Give India more Land & Air Fabrications as India has a vast territory. Pakistan defeats India in every scenario I played. Shouldn't be possible India has more modern army and in number has most army personal and military vehicles than Pakistan
-Tajikistan - Squadron of MiG 29 at Farkhor Air Base
Russia (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Russia shouldn't have air transit rights over Poland. It's weird to see Russian Jets Patrolling over Polish territory and attacking my units when I bring my units to Poland.
-Add Crimea Bases & As In GC-2020 It Should be a Colony/Part of Russia
-Naval base In Tartus, Syria (This is very very important base for Russia)
-Baranovichi, Belarus Air Base
Vietnam (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Aligned towards Allies (US)
Afghanistan
-Theocracy to Democracy
-Aligned towards US
-Bagram Air Base should be owned by US and should have US Military Presence in Afghanistan as there is a war on-going and new Afgan government has signed a deal to station US troops in Afghanistan post 2014.
-US or ISAF Forces needs to be added
US (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Give US main 5 bases around the world. Home of 5th, 6th and 7th fleet and also European Command in Germany and African Command in Djibouti.
-Stations Fleets in it's Bases. In real world US doesn't station their fleets in Home Bases.
-Diego Garcia shouldn't be UK. Diego Garcia is currently owned by the US as it is ranted by US from UK.
China (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Warm Relations Between China & Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan (In GC 2020 and World 2020 China and Kazakhstan are on brink of war. I believe that relations between these countries should be warm at least) <-> [Proposed By: drsidious in GC-2020 Thread also applies to World 2020]
-Currently has plans to build oversea bases in Seychelles or Pakistan (Probably will have it by 2020 or Probably NOT)
Albania & Croatia
-Neutral to US Aligned as It is NATO
Macedonia
-Neutral to US Aligned as it's really close to joining NATO probably will join NATO by 2020
Germany
-Neutral to US Aligned (One of the Most Important US Allies in Europe, How can they be Neutral?)
-Ramstein Air Base to US (European Command)
Bahrain
-Naval Base for US 5th Fleet
-Shouldn't be Neutral.
Israel & Egypt
-Neutral to US Aligned
Japan
-Naval Base to US 7th Fleet
Italy
-Naval Base In Naples For US 6th Fleet
Pakistan
-Should Be Aligned Towards Axis (China)
Crimea
-Should be as it is in GC-2020
-Russia Should own the military bases in Crimea
Turkey
-Cyprus Base as Part of Cyprus is controlled by Turkey
EDIT: 7/10/2014 [#1]
ADD
Cyprus, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Palestine <-> [Requested By: Cdiplayer]
EDIT: 13/10/2014
UPDATE: 8.2.18 ISSUES
I have gone through new update while U.S. as such following are mainly preliminary findings.
1. US - Canada Relations are "HOSTILE" (BG WHAT WHERE YOU THINKING? )
2. Andorra La Vella... Do they live in mountains?
3. Ukraine and most of western countries relations are "COLD" as recent events in Ukraine suggests this should be revised to at-least "NEUTRAL"
4. US - Yemen "HOSTILE" U.S have been helping Yemen to fight with terrorists. Hostile Nations wouldn't do that. Should be Revised...
5. Indo - US relations are "COLD"... Recently US replaced Russia as India's biggest arms supplier... Cold nations won't do that...
6. Jordan & Saudi Arabia are one of the most friendliest nations to US in the middle-east yet their relations with US is "NEUTRAL". Should be Revised...
EDIT: 19/10/2014
UPDATE: 9.0.2 ISSUES
Russia-Belarus only embassy treaty, in reality - Union State of Russia and Belarus - proposal-all treaties including missile defense.
Russia - Kazakhstan mortal enemies - in reality members of Shanghai Cooperation Organization - proposal China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan cordial mutual relations (full five bars), non aggression pact, free trade,mutual defense.
BRICS relations with Russia are neutral (except China) - proposal mutual relations between Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa should be friendly (four green bars) except Russia - China (detailed above)
In current game settings Russia is surrounded with enemies except China, Mongolia and Belarus. Relations between Russia and Bulgaria, Montenegro (Slavic nations, common Orthodox culture) and Russia - Greece (common Orthodox culture) aren't really cordial but are far from hostile as in game. Russia - Serbia relations are as in game .
Russia - Iran relations in game neutral - proposal friendly or cordial.
Russia - Syria in game neutral - proposal cordial
Russia -Armenia in game neutral - reality members of CSTO (Collective Security Treaty Organization) - proposal Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan cordial mutual relations (full five bars), non aggression pact, free trade,mutual defense.
[PROPOSED BY: drsidious]
WHERE IS CYPRUS... Greece is there in CYPRUS LAND....
Allow MORE FORMAL ALLIANCES between BRICS / SCO / Russian / Chinese allies... Currently it's mostly US / NATO allies forming alliances in game. I propose to make alliances between RED nations... For example Early Alliance between China and North Korea before Korean war... To balance and even out NK loosing every time without U.S intervention.
*Feel Free To Any Other Changes You Find.....
By: Balthagor
Some points when offering suggestions;
- if you mention a location, please find the x,y coordinates
- "foreign bases" only works if region A should own an area 16km x 16km at that location. We don't model leasing bases so such requests should be made elsewhere
- when listing real world treaties, please list also which in game treaties you think can used to represent those. If there isn't an in game equivalent, that also becomes a topic for a new thread.
hopefully xeeks can update the OP to reflect consensus in these discussions.
*Purpose of these changes are to make World 2020 as realistic as Real World.
*Much of the changes are Similar to GC - 2020 But There are some differences. But first some basic questions.
[1] In GC-2020 Europe has 41 Regions While World 2020 has 39 (What are those missing regions from World 2020?)
[2] In GC-2020 Central America has 20 Regions While World 2020 has 21 Regions (Again Missing Region in GC-2020 and what is that region and why?)
*Before we start off with proposed changed most important change is ADDING Half-World Alliances like (NATO - /CSTO/SCO/BRICS). When the game starts members of these organizations should be allied with each other.
*Apart from Organizational Alliances, US-Israel should be Allied as in real world they share a separate alliances (In-Case of attack on Israel US is obliged help Israel as per agreements made between two nations - Mutual Defence)
Libya
-Change Libyan FLAG (World 2020 has old Libyan Flag)
-Dictatorship to Democracy
-Aligned towards Allies (US)
India
-Neutral
-Give India more Land & Air Fabrications as India has a vast territory. Pakistan defeats India in every scenario I played. Shouldn't be possible India has more modern army and in number has most army personal and military vehicles than Pakistan
-Tajikistan - Squadron of MiG 29 at Farkhor Air Base
Russia (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Russia shouldn't have air transit rights over Poland. It's weird to see Russian Jets Patrolling over Polish territory and attacking my units when I bring my units to Poland.
-Add Crimea Bases & As In GC-2020 It Should be a Colony/Part of Russia
-Naval base In Tartus, Syria (This is very very important base for Russia)
-Baranovichi, Belarus Air Base
Vietnam (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Aligned towards Allies (US)
Afghanistan
-Theocracy to Democracy
-Aligned towards US
-Bagram Air Base should be owned by US and should have US Military Presence in Afghanistan as there is a war on-going and new Afgan government has signed a deal to station US troops in Afghanistan post 2014.
-US or ISAF Forces needs to be added
US (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Give US main 5 bases around the world. Home of 5th, 6th and 7th fleet and also European Command in Germany and African Command in Djibouti.
-Stations Fleets in it's Bases. In real world US doesn't station their fleets in Home Bases.
-Diego Garcia shouldn't be UK. Diego Garcia is currently owned by the US as it is ranted by US from UK.
China (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Warm Relations Between China & Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan (In GC 2020 and World 2020 China and Kazakhstan are on brink of war. I believe that relations between these countries should be warm at least) <-> [Proposed By: drsidious in GC-2020 Thread also applies to World 2020]
-Currently has plans to build oversea bases in Seychelles or Pakistan (Probably will have it by 2020 or Probably NOT)
Albania & Croatia
-Neutral to US Aligned as It is NATO
Macedonia
-Neutral to US Aligned as it's really close to joining NATO probably will join NATO by 2020
Germany
-Neutral to US Aligned (One of the Most Important US Allies in Europe, How can they be Neutral?)
-Ramstein Air Base to US (European Command)
Bahrain
-Naval Base for US 5th Fleet
-Shouldn't be Neutral.
Israel & Egypt
-Neutral to US Aligned
Japan
-Naval Base to US 7th Fleet
Italy
-Naval Base In Naples For US 6th Fleet
Pakistan
-Should Be Aligned Towards Axis (China)
Crimea
-Should be as it is in GC-2020
-Russia Should own the military bases in Crimea
Turkey
-Cyprus Base as Part of Cyprus is controlled by Turkey
EDIT: 7/10/2014 [#1]
ADD
Cyprus, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Palestine <-> [Requested By: Cdiplayer]
EDIT: 13/10/2014
UPDATE: 8.2.18 ISSUES
I have gone through new update while U.S. as such following are mainly preliminary findings.
1. US - Canada Relations are "HOSTILE" (BG WHAT WHERE YOU THINKING? )
2. Andorra La Vella... Do they live in mountains?
3. Ukraine and most of western countries relations are "COLD" as recent events in Ukraine suggests this should be revised to at-least "NEUTRAL"
4. US - Yemen "HOSTILE" U.S have been helping Yemen to fight with terrorists. Hostile Nations wouldn't do that. Should be Revised...
5. Indo - US relations are "COLD"... Recently US replaced Russia as India's biggest arms supplier... Cold nations won't do that...
6. Jordan & Saudi Arabia are one of the most friendliest nations to US in the middle-east yet their relations with US is "NEUTRAL". Should be Revised...
EDIT: 19/10/2014
UPDATE: 9.0.2 ISSUES
Russia-Belarus only embassy treaty, in reality - Union State of Russia and Belarus - proposal-all treaties including missile defense.
Russia - Kazakhstan mortal enemies - in reality members of Shanghai Cooperation Organization - proposal China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan cordial mutual relations (full five bars), non aggression pact, free trade,mutual defense.
BRICS relations with Russia are neutral (except China) - proposal mutual relations between Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa should be friendly (four green bars) except Russia - China (detailed above)
In current game settings Russia is surrounded with enemies except China, Mongolia and Belarus. Relations between Russia and Bulgaria, Montenegro (Slavic nations, common Orthodox culture) and Russia - Greece (common Orthodox culture) aren't really cordial but are far from hostile as in game. Russia - Serbia relations are as in game .
Russia - Iran relations in game neutral - proposal friendly or cordial.
Russia - Syria in game neutral - proposal cordial
Russia -Armenia in game neutral - reality members of CSTO (Collective Security Treaty Organization) - proposal Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan cordial mutual relations (full five bars), non aggression pact, free trade,mutual defense.
[PROPOSED BY: drsidious]
WHERE IS CYPRUS... Greece is there in CYPRUS LAND....
Allow MORE FORMAL ALLIANCES between BRICS / SCO / Russian / Chinese allies... Currently it's mostly US / NATO allies forming alliances in game. I propose to make alliances between RED nations... For example Early Alliance between China and North Korea before Korean war... To balance and even out NK loosing every time without U.S intervention.
*Feel Free To Any Other Changes You Find.....
Last edited by xeeks on Oct 18 2014, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
This topic should be "Changes to GC 2020" and previous "Changes to World 2020"
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
Why?drsidious wrote:This topic should be "Changes to GC 2020" and previous "Changes to World 2020"
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
From previous thread:
If there is no relations/alliances change in GC 2020, then all my posts are for World 2020, and I hate to write them again.Balthagor wrote:I agree for Global Crisis, this seems more the sort of change we would make for World 2020.Kristijonas wrote:No way for GC. That should be an unpredictable scenario. No half-world alliances like NATO.
A new thread like this one could be started for each of World 2020 and Shattered World for similar suggestions for those sandboxes.
- Balthagor
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
There is already a thread for GC2020drsidious wrote:This topic should be "Changes to GC 2020" and previous "Changes to World 2020"
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 70&t=23520
You can copy and paste.
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
I would like to see Cyprus, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Palestine added in. It might also be a good idea to move Western Sahara's borders to where they are in real life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sa ... aramap.png east of the line is independent, west is controlled by Morocco.
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
I don't think it's possible. Game Engine only allows limited number of countries.Cdiplayer wrote:I would like to see Cyprus, Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Palestine added in. It might also be a good idea to move Western Sahara's borders to where they are in real life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Sa ... aramap.png east of the line is independent, west is controlled by Morocco.
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
Base in Tartus, Syria is Material-Technical Support Point - that would be in SR Sea Transit&Supply. Russia announced that Tartus will be developed as a naval base, so Russia should have naval base in 2020.xeeks wrote: Russia (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Russia shouldn't have air transit rights over Poland. It's weird to see Russian Jets Patrolling over Polish territory and attacking my units when I bring my units to Poland.
-Add Crimea Bases & As In GC-2020 It Should be a Colony/Part of Russia
-Naval base In Tartus, Syria (This is very very important base for Russia)
-Baranovichi, Belarus Air Base
...
Vietnam (Same Changes Needed as GC-2020)
-Aligned towards Allies (US)
....
Macedonia
-Neutral to US Aligned as it's really close to joining NATO probably will join NATO by 2020
.....
I don't agree that Vietnam should aligned itself towards Allies (US).
US are top exporting market for Vietnam goods but China is top import market.
There are issues with US - past history, missing Americans (obsolete in 2020) and China - past history, South China See dispute.
Russia is only major power that has military cooperation pact with Vietnam (as of august 2013.).
Macedonia wont join NATO until naming dispute is solved. I doubt that will happen in 2020.
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
List of some treaties:
NATO - Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, USA.
Shanghai Cooperation Organization - China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan.
Collective Security Treaty Organization - Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan.
ANZUS - Australia, New Zealand, United States.
Rio Treaty - Argentina, Bahamas, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago, United States, Uruguay.
Peace and Security Council (African Standby Force) - all independent countries in Africa and African waters except Morocco (left) and Central African Republic (suspended)
Union of South American Nations - Bolivia , Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Venezuela, Chile, Guyana, Suriname.
NATO - Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, USA.
Shanghai Cooperation Organization - China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan.
Collective Security Treaty Organization - Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan.
ANZUS - Australia, New Zealand, United States.
Rio Treaty - Argentina, Bahamas, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Trinidad and Tobago, United States, Uruguay.
Peace and Security Council (African Standby Force) - all independent countries in Africa and African waters except Morocco (left) and Central African Republic (suspended)
Union of South American Nations - Bolivia , Colombia, Ecuador, Peru, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Venezuela, Chile, Guyana, Suriname.
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
India shouldn't have major (blue/red) alliances but should be Russia/China aligned.
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
Some points when offering suggestions;
- if you mention a location, please find the x,y coordinates
- "foreign bases" only works if region A should own an area 16km x 16km at that location. We don't model leasing bases so such requests should be made elsewhere
- when listing real world treaties, please list also which in game treaties you think can used to represent those. If there isn't an in game equivalent, that also becomes a topic for a new thread.
hopefully xeeks can update the OP to reflect consensus in these discussions.
- if you mention a location, please find the x,y coordinates
- "foreign bases" only works if region A should own an area 16km x 16km at that location. We don't model leasing bases so such requests should be made elsewhere
- when listing real world treaties, please list also which in game treaties you think can used to represent those. If there isn't an in game equivalent, that also becomes a topic for a new thread.
hopefully xeeks can update the OP to reflect consensus in these discussions.
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
I will...Balthagor wrote:Some points when offering suggestions;
- if you mention a location, please find the x,y coordinates
- "foreign bases" only works if region A should own an area 16km x 16km at that location. We don't model leasing bases so such requests should be made elsewhere
- when listing real world treaties, please list also which in game treaties you think can used to represent those. If there isn't an in game equivalent, that also becomes a topic for a new thread.
hopefully xeeks can update the OP to reflect consensus in these discussions.
So does that mean no oversea bases for any nation?
How to get X,Y Coordinates?
- Balthagor
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
Look at Guantanamo or the British base in Cyprus to see our standards for this.xeeks wrote:So does that mean no oversea bases for any nation?
If you look at the land dept, empty hexes will show you the coordinates. For a city, look at the hex above and the hex below to figure out its location.xeeks wrote:How to get X,Y Coordinates?
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
Yeh Those two places have U.S/U.K Military bases. Truth is World 2020 has more oversea bases for U.K. than U.S. which doesn't represent our modern world or future 6 years presumed world. In current Geo-Political environment U.S. has more foreign bases than any other nation. As such at-least U.S should have 5 of main U.S oversea HQ. Which Includes Home of 6the fleet (Italy, Naples, (X=900, Y=199/200), Home of 7th Fleet Yokosuka (X=1660, Y=237), Home of 5th fleet Bahrain (X=1146, Y=284), European HQ Ramstein Airbase (X=857, Y=154), African HQ Djibouti (X=1114, Y=360) and since now U.S and Afghanistan have agreed to keep U.S Force to fight the war with Talibans U.S. should also have a base in Afghanistan (X=1245, Y=239).Balthagor wrote:Look at Guantanamo or the British base in Cyprus to see our standards for this.xeeks wrote:So does that mean no oversea bases for any nation?
This will solve another problem. Currently it takes weeks for U.S to respond to allies since they are worlds apart... But in real world U.S can strike any country it wishes to in 60 minutes of Presidents Order. So 2/3 game week of transportation doesn't really help and most of the times wars are over before any significant help. Russian Syrian Base (X=1045, Y=234) base is very important in the modern world. These places provide logistical support and power projection capabilities for these nations. U.K having more bases over seas than U.S doesn't really represent our current time or any near-future (6 year) time.
Adding this to World-2020 will at-least give old users a new experience... Judging that 2020 was released in 2008, and will serve as a good reward for loyal players.
Main point of this post is to provide X, Y Coordinates.
Last edited by xeeks on Oct 08 2014, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proposed Changes to World 2020 (Alliances, Bases,....)
US can strike any country in 60min, as can Russia although not conventionaly.
In case of NATO-W. Pact war US would have needed several weeks to redeploy to Europe strategicaly significant formations, so the game time frame is ok.
In case of NATO-W. Pact war US would have needed several weeks to redeploy to Europe strategicaly significant formations, so the game time frame is ok.