Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

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geminif4ucorsair
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Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

Post by geminif4ucorsair »

IN reviewing the beta for SR-1936, military production (MILPROD) are all over the map and significantly inaccurate, as to historical locations for Naval, Air, and Land production facilities active in 1936.

Battlegoat appears to have a philosophy of minimizing the number of MILPROD's available to players at the beginning of the games, yet even the locations chosen are not historical locations, in almost all cases. Why is this important? First, SR-1936 is not advertised as a science fiction game and attempts to be a representation of mid-1930s military, political, and economic conditions at the time.

In the spirit of BGs effort to minimize the number of military facilities included for each region, in the case of Naval facilities, the below listings include only the Navy yards - common in the U.S., Japan, USSR (all yards are government owned), Chile, Peru, and others. Second, only major civilian-owned yards, which is primarily yards in the United Kingdom, should be included, where their active construction involves cruisers or large combatants.

While Bathagor sometimes justified decisions on "balance", one cannot have exact balance between all regions in 1936....the U.S. and UK were simply the biggest kids on the block, largely because of their maritime dependence. Neither had a significant land threat and therefore the navies were always viewed as the most significant factor in insuring their security. In North America, Canada support the UK in all manner of maritime things, including shipbuilding during WW One, along with its own navy, but never presented a "threat" the the U.S. - there will be no "balance" in the North American region (which includes Mexico & Central American), therefore. A similar analogy can be carried over to Europe with regard to land forces, while Japan holds the same naval dominance in the Asian theater in the mid-30s. Ultimately, some Regions will begin looking more powerful because o the number of Military Production facilities historical there - no excuses made.

Those capable of modding their games, this is your chance to make the beta right before BG has a chance to get the changes in updates or final release! Players will get a more accurate WW 2 if they do.

Part 1 will include the Naval fabrication yards; Part 2 and 3 will follow covering Air and Land locations.

- UNITED STATES.
* * Navy Yards, East Coast:

* New York Navy Yard (NY), Camden, NJ - among the first three US Navy shipyards, three were established by 1800. 3xShip Build slots
Built BB-40, -43 post-WW One; mid-30s building 2 x cruisers (NEW ORLEANS, then BROOKLYN, HONOLULU)& 2xDD or PG (Erie)
simultaneously.

* Portsmouth NY, Portsmouth, NH - another of the original yards. 2xShip Build slots....
Pre-WW 2, simultaneously built 2 submarines at a time, all thru the '20s and '30s.

* Boston NY, Boston, MA - third of the original "Navy" yards. 2xShip Build slots....
Pre-WW 2, simultaneously built three 15000-ton fleet oilers (PECOS) for the navy, but specialized in destroyers during 1930s.

* Charleston NY, Charleston, SC (est. 1901) - 1xShip Build slot;
On 8Jul36 delivered PG-51 Charleston large gunboat; WW2 major DD shipyard.

* Philadelphia NY, Philadelphia, PA (est. 1801) - 2xShip Build slots;
Simultaneously building CA-45 WICHITA and CL-41 PHILADELPHIA in '36; wartime contracts included 2xBBs at same time.

* Norfolk NY, Norfolk, VA (est. 1767) - 3xShip Build slots;
One large building way (BB-52 was ordered); building 5xDDs simultaneously in mid-30s.

West Coast:

* Bremerton (Puget Sound) NY, Bremerton, WA (est. 1901) - 2xShip Build slots;
Mid-36 was building 2xDDs simultaneously, plus had 3 BB/CV-capable dry docks for repairs of any existent USN ship.

* Mare Island NY, Vallejo, CA (south end, S.F. Bay Area; est. 1854); - 2xShip Build slot;
Had order for BB-51 (cancelled); was building 2xDDs or subs simultaneously - greatly expanded # during WW 2.

Note: not included in this list are Long Beach (CA) NY, Washington NY; Pensacola NY; New Orleans NY, or Pearl Harbor (HI) Navy Yard's

Private Shipyards:

* Bethlehem (US Steel) Shipyard, Quincy, MA (also known as Fore River SB) - 5xShip Build slots;
Built BB-36 (NEVADA) & big WW One yard for subs & DDs; in '35-36 simultaneously building VINCENNES & QUINCY CAs + 3 DD's;
famous in WW 2 as cruiser building yard - 4xBaltimore or Cleveland simultaneously + cargo ships, tankers, LST and DD/DEs.

* Federal Shipbuilding, Kearny (NJ) - 4xShip Build slots;
Mid-36 building 2 x large tankers + 2x DDs simultaneously; wartime also built Atlanta CLAAs (two), plus 3-4 C-1/C-2/C-3 or tankers
simultaneously; later in war was also building seven ship (cargo + DDs) simultaneously.


----------------
Not included are Defoe SB (Bay City, MI) - delivered PC-451 in '40; Cramp SY (Philadelphia, PA) - big WW One yard bldg up to 6-7 DDs
simultaneously; close; resumed USN cruiser deliveries in '43; ANY Navy or private shipyards in Philippines, Panama or elsewhere in Commonwealth; Todd SY (Tacoma, WA - ended Navy construction '24; resumed C-1 cargo ship deliveries '41; famous during war for
cargo ship, repair ships and CVE (Jeep Carriers) construction; Bethlehem Steel (Western Pipe) SY, San Pedro, CA - ended Navy work '21
and resumed in 1940, first DD deliveries in 1942; and, Brown Shipbuilding (Houston, TX) - famous in wartime for its PC, LCI(L) and mid-/
late-war destroyer escort construction.

----------------
* * JAPAN -
* Navy Yards:

* Kure Naval Yard: (est. 1889) - 4 x Build slops
Built 5 battleships, 3 battlecruisers, 3 carriers, 5 cruisers, 16 destroyers and a lot of submarines, submarine tenders, minesweepers, mine layers and seaplane tenders prior to WW 2;

* Yokosuka Naval Yard: (est. 1867) - 3xBuild slots
Built 4 battleships, 2 battlecruisers, 5 carriers, 11 cruisers, 30 destroyers, 30 submarines, and all kinds of other warships (including two sumbarine tenders which was refitted as carrier Shoho and Ryuho) .

* Sasebo Naval Yard: (est. 1890s) - 2xBuild slots
Built 11 cruisers, 27 destroyers and 36 submarines.

* Private Yards:

* Kobe Shipyard (Kawasaki Shipbuilding), Kobe - 2xBuild slots
Built 1 BB (Ise), 1 BC (Haruna), 4 CVs (Kaga, Zuiho, Hiyo, Taiho), 9 cruisers, 2 seaplane tenders, 21 DDs, and 49 submarines.

* Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Nagasaki Shipyard, Nagasaki - 3xBuild slots
Built 2 BBs (Hyuga and Musashi), 1 BC (Kirishima), 3 CVs (Junyo, Taiyo, Amagi), 12 cruisers (4 heavy cruisers and 3 Type B cruisers (later as
Type A cruisers), 21 DDs, 31 DEs, and most ocean liners and large passenger ships in '20/30s.

* Uraga Dock Yard, Tokyo: 2xBuild slots (building HATSUHARA and HATSUSHIMO DDs simultaneously)
Built 2 light cruisers, 39 DDs, 11 DEs and several smaller ships.

* Osaka Shipbuilding, Osaka; 2xBuild slots
Primarily building of large cargo and other merchant ships - adding capability of several other shipyards in the Inland Sea
for inclusion in this build slot number, including Tamano, Harima, NKK, Hitach Shpbldg (four yards), Fujinagata Shipbuilding; and others.

Relavent Shipbuilding program:

Second Naval Armaments Supplement Program
マル②計画 (Maru 2 Keikaku) or Circle Two Program
1934
Cost: ¥431,688,000 for new ship construction
2 x Tone (C-38) Medium / Heavy Cruisers (were rebuilt to use 8” guns during construction) (No.5 and No.6)
2 x Soryu CVL (one was later built as the Hiryu)
4 x Shiratsuyu DD
10 x Asashio DD
16 x Otori Torpedo Boats
2 x Junsen III Cruiser Submarines
2 x Kadai VI Large Submarines
2 x Chitose Seaplane Tenders, Type A (10,000 ton)
1 x Mizuho Seaplane Tender, Type B (9,000 ton)
1 x PC-3 Subchaser
2 x No.251 Subchasers (Diesel Powered)
1 x No.251 Subchaser (Turbine Powered)
2 x Tsurugizaki Fleet Oilers
1 x Akashi Repair Ship

Summary:
2 x Carriers (Soryu CVL, one was later built as the Hiryu CV)
2 x Heavy Cruisers
14 x Destroyers
16 x Torpedo Boat, Corvettes, etc.
4 x Submarines
3 x Seaplane Tenders
4 x Subchasers
2 x Fleet Oilers
1 x Repair Ship
Note: The above is included to show the extend of construction between 1935-37, when the next program was to begin (Japan was on a
fiscal year basis, much like the U.S. but differing month & day).

Follow-on program:[this is included to show the extent of construction due in 1937 thru 1939, except for the two Yamato and
two Shokaku CVs that were not due for completion until late-41 to mid-1942 (which turned out to be historical)

Third Naval Armaments Supplement Program
マル③計画 (Maru 3 Keikaku) or Circle Three Program
1937
Cost: ¥806,549,000 for new ship construction

2 x Yamato Battleships (No. 1 Yamato and No. 2 Musashi)
2 x Shokaku Aircraft Carriers (No. 3 Shokaku and No. 4)
18 x Kagero Destroyers (Type A) (No. 17 to No 34)
4 x Shimushu Escort Ships (Type A) (No. 9 to No. 12)
9 x No.4 Subchasers (Ships No 62 to No. 70)
2 x Hashidate Gunboats (Type A) (No. 13 and No. 14)
2 x Fushimi Gunboats (Type B) (No. 15 and No. 16)
2 x I-9 Cruiser Submarines (Type A) (No. 35 and No. 36)
7 x I-15 Cruiser Submarines (Type B)
5 x I-16 Cruiser Submarines (Type C) (No. 44 to No. 48)
1 x No.71 Experimental Submarine
5 x Sokuten Minelayers (No. 57 to No. 61)
1 x Nissin Minelayer (No. 5)
1 x Tsugaru Minelayer (No. 6)
2 x Hatsutaka Minelayers (No 7, No. 8 units)
6 x No.7 Minesweepers (No. 49 to No. 54)
1 x Kashino Munitions Transport (No. 55)
1 x Tsukushi Survey Ship (No. 56)
-----------------------------------------
* * USSR
* Arctic Shipyards
* DROP - Arkhangelsk (Molotovsk or Severodvinsk No. 402)
This major shipyard's construction was begun during early-30s but not completed until 1938. It was named after the Bolshevik V.M. Molotov
(Molotovsk) at that time, until his fall from grace in the post-Stalin era. It was a concrete covered, two bay shipyard, intending to build two (2)
"Sovietskiy Soyuz" class battleships in parallel, along with future battlecruisers for the White Sea/Arctic Fleet. Post-war it focused on Sverdlov and Skoryy classes, until becoming a premier submarine shipyard (eight Zulu Class SS from 1953, onward).
Players modding might try and set a 450 or days "pending" onto the facility, or just make it available in 1938.

* Baltic Shipyards:
* Ordzhonikidze No. 189 (Baltic) - Admiralty No. 194 - Petrovskiy Shipyard - Sudomekh Shipyard No. 196: all are location on Vasilevski Island or across the Bolshaya Neva River from the southern end of the island, were the major yards, each capable of 2 or more DD/Sub or larger ship simultaneously.....current Military Complex (X974 103) has 1xBuild Slot.....
at the time the of '36, the Soviets were building both cruisers KIEV and MAKSIM GORKI, several destroyers and submarines in these yards.
At minimum I would amend the Ship Build slop total to "5"....for the cumulation of these shipyards (those wanting a more representative
"real" world total should fill up all the Build slots.

Not included in the above is the Navy facility at Kronshtadt, which by the Civil War (1920s) was primarily a repair yard for the navy, and it had the largest dry dock in the USSR in the mid-30s - fully capable of handling the new "Sovietskii Soyuz" class battleships.

* New Yards / Military Complex:
* Zhdanov Shipyard No. 190 (Northern Yard) - this is located southeast along the Baltic coast from Leningrad and should not be included in the Leningrad complex of shipyards, but have a separate Military Complex locations - X974 Y104.
This yard was re-named in honor of a revolutionary sailor (Zhdanov), having once been known as the Putilov Works or Putilov Marine Engine Works, est. in 1815. Build Slots: 2

* Krasnoye Sormovo Shipyard No. 112 (Gorkiy) X1054 Y121 - Build Slots: 2
Renamed after the Civil War ended (1922), the shipyard is located just north of the city of Gorkiy and under the Soviets, became a major submarine and corvette or small combatants shipyard; in the post-war period, it was greatly expanded and built 116 submarines and other combatants between 1950-57, a total of 40 submarines alone in 1955.

* Zelenodov'sk Shipyard No. 340 - X1079 Y123 - Build Slots: 1
The yard is located 65km west of Kazan on the Vetluga River (this is poorly shown on the map, because land overlaps the river - making it somewhat unclear if the river continues thru adjacent the city of Zelenodov'sk)....the yard should be placed in the hex above the city.

* Lithuania:
* Klaipeda / Baltiya Shipyard (Memel / Lindenau) - X931 Y125). Build Slot: 1
This is a former German shipyard that built torpedo boat destroyers, merchant ships, etc. at the yard, and also has extensive dry docks.

* * Black Sea:
* New Yard:
* Nikolayev Northern Shipyard No. 455 (Marti North or 61 Kommuna Yard) - X999 Y170....along the east bank of the BUG River (not clear if BG has blocked passage of this major river on the map, but if this is the case, it should be a MAP Correction. Build Slots: 2
Nikolayev is one of the oldest shipyard in Russia, est. in 1789 (initially as a naval base, replaced later by Sevastopol in importance).

The battleship SOVIETSKAYA UKRAINA was laid down there (launch scheduled for No 42), and later (laid down '39) "Chapayaev" class cruiser KUIBYSHEV and FRUNZe, at what was then two adjacent yards (North and South yards), demonstrating the ability to build 3 major warships simultaneously. Post war focus was on cruisers (Kara CG) and destroyers. Build slots: 3

* Black Sea Shipyard No. 444 (Nosenko or Nikolayev-Marti (South)) - X1000 Y172 - current a Military Complex - Built Slots: 2
Located south of Nikolayev, it can be represented at the above X-Y Military Complex, by adding Naval Fabrication slots to the existing locations.
The basis for the number of slots is conservative...
the yard was building both cruisers MOLOTOV and VOROSHILOV in parallel in '35-36, and the keel as laid for the second ship of the "Kronshtadt" class battlecruisers there. After the war, it was a major sub building yard, beginning with small M class and in '51 with the first Whiskey (W) class diesel attack boats.

* ADD - SEVASTOPOL - not as a shipyard, but ADD: 1 x Sea Port.....it was headquarters and primary naval base for the Black Sea Fleet....
X1016 Y183.

Most other shipyards in the Black Sea were either repair or not established as combatant or major merchant marine shipyards until the post-war period, including Kherson, Iktyabr'skoye/Okean and Butoma No. 532 (on the Kerch na Azov) - named this in 1981 - but was a decent size shipyard in the late-1930s.

* Pacific:
* Komsolol'sk na Amur (Shipyard No. 199) - Build Slots: 2
Construction of the yard began in 1932, under Stalin's 2nd Five Year Plan funding. It was built from the beginning to buid 2 "Sovietskiy (or Sovetskii) Soyuz" class battleships simultaneously; with war coming to the USSR in June 41, the two BBs were cancelled in the Pacific yard, later replaced by two cruiser hulls (KALININ & KAGONOVICH), completed in 1944. Post-war, the yard became heavily engaged in submarine construction in the early-years

* Dalzavod/Ulis Shipyard (Vladivostok) - Build Slot: 2
This is a yard that was building destroyers and SHCH class submarines in the 1930s (previously also building L and S classes) and easily a single Build slot at Dalzavod Shipyard. Ulis Shipyard built numerous combatant classes (corvette and smaller ships), which is why I give it the second Build slot.

Not included are yards at Blagoveschensk (Amur River yard) and Khabarovsk - the latter only becoming a major shipyard in the early-50s - and Petropavlovsk (there are two shipbuilding yards there but even in the '30s primarily supported small craft and the fishing fleet needs).
-------------

* NORWAY

* Horton Naval Yard, Horton; Build Slot: 1
This naval yard is located @ 32-mi. south of Oslo, on the west side of the fjord...the Military Complex at X868 Y105 should probably be changed from "Oslo" to HORTON (M.C.). The facility built several classes of combatants during WW One, and began building the current "Sleipner" class fast light frigate in the early-30s (still building) and completed the frigate-sized minelayer Olav Tryggvason.

* Stavanger Shipyard, Stavanger: Build Slot: 1
This private yard has both marine RR's and dry docks for built ships up to 150,000-tons, operated by ROsenberg Mek. Verketed A/S firm.
Should be given a single shipbuilding capacity....
Note: Kristiansand also has two shipyards there, one with a graving/construction dock 698-ft. long, but have not included.
[An FYI to modding world, if you want to include an extra Build Slot...]
---------------
* THE NETHERLANDS:
* Ref - Vissingen Military Complex - ADD: 1 x Naval Fabrication slot.....
this is the famous "der Schelde" (The Royal Co.) location....which in the '30s built most of the Dutch submarines, and shortly begin building
the destroyer ISAAC SWEERS and PHILIPS VAN ALMANDE; yard is sometimes referred to as at "Flushing".

* ADD New Military Complex: Amsterdam (X846 Y141) - 1 x Naval Fabrication slots
This represents the Netherlands Dock & Shdg. shipbuilding facilities - the latter was building the light cruiser JACOB VAN HEEMSKERCK and DE RUYTER (launched May '35) light cruisers, and had built minelayers and other ships, as well as Merchant Ships (MS).

* CHANGE: Rotterdam Military Complex: ADD: 2x Naval Fabrication slot.....[total: 3]...see below:
* Fijenoord (Rotterdam) and Rotterdam Dry Dock Co., the former active in submarine builds and was building the DE RUYTER
light cruiser (launched 11May35); Rotterdam DD was building the light cruiser TROMP (D.28) (launch 24May37) and was contracted for the
second "De Ruyter" CL (Eendracht, ex-Kijkduin) - both also built destroyers.

* Bergerhouts Shipyard, Rotterdam shipbuilder: Bergerhouts, recently building destroyers (BANCKERT, EVERTSEN, KORTENAER and PIET
HEIN)

* DUTCH EAST INDIES (DEI/NEI):
* Surabaya (or Sourabaia) Shipyards - X1518 Y451 - ADD: 1xMilitary Complex; 1xNaval Fabrication.
Surababaya built a range of merchant and combatants, including frigate-sized government marine vessels:sloops, minesweepers,
and patrol craft, throughout the '30s.

* Tanjung Priok (Tanjungkarang) Shipyards - X1474 Y442) - ADD: 1xMilitary Complex; 1xNaval Fabrication
Shipyard built various government and patrol craft, and the frigate-sized minelayer RAM (launched 10Dec41)

------------

* FRANCE:
* Atlantic Coast:

* Cherbourg (Naval) Dockyard - Naval Fab Build Slots: 3 (currently one)
Cherbourg naval dockyard was primarily a submarine building yard. In the 1920s, it laid down as many as 5 submarines simultaneously; in 1923, it laid down 4 Requin Class (1st Class) fleet submarines and was building 3 Redoutable Class fleet subs in '36 (BEVEZIERS, OUESSANT, SIDI FERRUCH) - all laid down in 1931 (and had launched two others in 1934 (AGOSTA & SFAX). Three Build Slots therefore seems reasonable.

* CAEN. Currently: 1 x Naval Fabrication [should be 2, however]
The Military Complex and a City, with Sea Port should be used at this location. CAEN was primarily a iron ore and coal export port, and
but retained a small role in French naval construction after building LE FORTUNE & LE MARS - both simultaneously, from
1926 to completion in 1928. Both were L'Adroit class DDs.
Shipbuilder "Chantiers de Navale Francais" is the primary shipyard, having 10 building slips.
The yard was building two "Elan" class Sloops (CDT. DELAGE, CDT. BORY) from 11/36 (commission in '39), and laid down 2 more in '38.

* BREST (Naval) Dockyard: Naval Fab Build Slots: 2 (currently one)
Brest was primarily a capital ship and submarine building yard; in the '35-36, it was simultaneously building the DUNKERQUE battlecruiser,
commissioned LA GALISSONNIERE cruiser (31Dec35), and routinely building 2 x fleet submarines(LE CENTAURE and LE HEROS, laid down 14Oct32. Earlier, two of the three Duguay-Trouin class cruisers (mid-20s) were built there, simultaneously.

* LORIENT (Naval) Dockyard: Naval Fab Build Slots: 3 (currently one)
Also known as the Arsenal de Lorient, a navy-owned complex of shipbuilding and dry docking facilities, with three large building dry docks. Traditionally a cruiser & large destroyer building yard after WW One; in mid-/late-30s, was simultaneously building JEAN DE VIENNE light cruiser and two Le Fantasque class destroyer leaders (LE FANTASQUE & L'AUDACIEUX). The facility became the focal point for building contre-
torpilleurs
during the inter-war period; the Forme de Lanester was a modern, concrete covered building dock, capable of handling
one capital ship or two cruiser or small hulls simultaneously.

* ST. NAZAIRE shipyards: 4 x Naval Fabrication slots
Two major shipyards - both private - dominated shipbuilding in the St. Nazaire area: Penhoet and A.C. Loire. Both yards had cooperated in
contracts on capital ships - both were awarded construction of the GASCOGNE battleship, where Penhoet would had the contract for JEAN
BART - both would have been building simultaneously in 1939-41 (had history not intervened).
Penhoet has the contract for STRASBOURG (laid down 25Nov34, launched 12Dec36) and was building cruiser GEORGES LEYGUES (launch 24Mar36) (and had build destroyers in the early-30s, two simultaneously). Penhoet also have the contract for building both "Joffe" class aircraft
carriers, laid down in 1938-39 (JOFFRE & PAINLEVE). The yard earlier build cruisers JEANNE D'ARC & EMILE BERTIN and several DDs in the '20s-
'30s. Contracts also called for 5 "Sans Souci" class seaplane tenders to be built at Penhoet (only one got laid down in '40, due to war ending).
Full name for the yard was Ateliers et Chantiers (A.C.) de St.Nazaire-Penhoet
Naval Build Slots: 3
A.C. Loire: was primarily a destroyer/frigate builder and had just finished LE TERRIBLE (Oct 35), was building frigates LA POMONE, BOMBARDE
and L'IPHIGENIE ("La Melpomene" class). The yard also would be the contract for two "Le Fier" in '37 and five more in '38 and '38b Programs -
and indication that at least three or more could be built simultantiously.
Naval Build Slots: 1 + retain the Sea Port.
DROP: the Barracks should be moved to the adjacent town of St. Nazaire; eliminate the Land Fabrication facility.

* BORDEAUX Needed: New Military Complex at X823 Y181; 3 x Naval Fabrication slot
Bordeaux is home of Forges et Chantiers de la Gironde (F.C. Gironde) shipyard, whose was building cruiser GLOIRE (and had built CMDT.
TESTE (commission '32), and had contract for "De Grasse" CL GUICHEN in 1938; but was know mostly as a DD and (colonial) Sloop builder
'20-30s. The yard also began simultaneous building of 2 "Le Hardi" fleet DDs (L'ADROIT & LE CYCLONE under '35-36 Programs, both laid
down in 1936, with two more contracted for in the '38 Program (due to begin when the first two launched).
The earlier shipyard name here was Dyle & Bacalan, which built destroyers in the WW One era.
Four major building slips, three are cruiser-capable and the third 436-ft.
With ability to build minimum one cruiser and two fleet destroyers, 3 x Build Slots is reasonable

* TOULON (Naval) Dockyard and F.C. Mediterranee Shipyard: 4 x Naval Fabrication Slots:
These two shipyard complexes are across from each other and the Hex X860 Y190 and should be retitled: Toulon - La Seyne;
the current "village" should be re-classed as a Town or City; ADD: 1 x Sea Port, 4 x Naval Fabrication slots (as above).

DROP - AUBAGNE (X859 Y189) .....this is a small village (commune) - ON A HILLTOP! - with a population of 46-47,000 persons. It has
NO port or naval base, etc...nor any Aircraft Fabrication facility. [Where the BG designer of this came up with this idea is beyond me...it is also
a carry-over from SR-Cold War (SR-49) - so players modding that game should make these change too.]
[Source: http://www.google.com/#q=aubagne+france ]

Toulon is across the harbor from the private shipyard of F.C. Mediterranee shipyard, so the two can be considered both in the same Hex.
The largest dry dock at Toulon is 409-meter long. Toulon (Navale) DY was primarily a sub builder, having built 3 to 5 simultaneously from
the early-post WW One period and again in the late-30s (all "Saphir" class).

F.C. Med built several destroyers during the early-30s (completed LE MALIN DDL in Nov.
'35 and L'INDOMPTABLE in Sep 36 and was the major building yard for big "Le Hardi" DDs, building 4 simultaneously: FOURDROYANT,
CASQUE (laid down 8/36 & 11/36) and SIROCO and BISON in 3/38 (before the fist two had launched).
The A. Ch. La Seyne (or Seine) also was building single "La Melpomene" light frigates in mid-/late-30s.

* LE HAVRE - Military Complex (Le Havre) at X823 Y155. 1 x Naval Fabrication slot
A.C. Normand-Le Havre shipyard;
This shipyard was one of four major shipyard suppliers in the mid-/late-30s for submarines - building 2 simultaneously.
Conservatively should be 1 x Naval Fabrication - normally in real world would give it "2".

* NANTES - Chanters Dubigon-Normandie shipyards - 1 x Naval Fabrication slot
Shipyard from the '30s was building one or two submarines (simultaneously), including "Redoubtable" fleet subs, and had built several
subs of earlier classes.

* ROUEN - Chantiers Worms Shipyard - 1 x Naval Fabrication slot
ADD: 1 x Military Complex at X826 Y152, add 1x Sea Port, add 1 x Naval Fabrication facility
One of the four major sub builders for France from the mid-20s, routinely building one sub in the early-30s ("630-ton"), moving to 2 sub
simultaneously in the late-30s, including one "Minerve" from 03/36 and 2 "Aurore" in '37. Also had contracts for two "L'Adour" class
navy replenishment tankers (AOR) under the '37-38 budget programs

* OPTIONAL ADDITIONS:
* MARSEILLES - Soc. Prov. de Constr. Navales shipyard; 1 x Naval Fabrication slot
Marseilles major shipbuilder delivered several types of ships, including Merchant Ships.

* DUNKIRK - Atlantique Ch. de France shipyard - 1 x Naval Fabrication slot
Primarily a merchant ship builder, before German over-run of France, was to build the 4 x "La Saone" class large tanker replenishment
ships (19,900-tons) for the Navy, and was building 2 x "L'Adour" AORs from '36-37 naval budgets.

* La ROCHELLE - 1 x Naval Fabrication slot

* PORT de BOUE - 1 x Naval Fabrication slot
A. Chantiers de Provence shipyard....prominent during WW One, was building "Elan" class sloops before the war - 2 simultaneously -
and was the second shipyard for the "Chamois" class light frigates building until France's collapse - 4 building simultaneously.

NOTE: Not included in above is the Chalon-sur-Saone shipyard of "Establissements Schneider", which was also a major provider of subs
to the French navy, averaging two building at any one time from the late-20s. This inland shipyard used the Rhone River south to the
Mediterranean (outlet west of Marseilles). "Schneider" yard (as it was known) built all five "630-ton Schneider-Labeuf" subs late-20s/early-
30s, and had contracts for four "Emeraude" class sub minelayers and 4 "Phenix" class fleet subs in 1940.

The above shipyard total would is not radical at all....an is very comparable with JAPAN - for balance, since each Empire is likely to eventually
be at war with the other over Indo-China or elsewhere, though the "Option" list would extend French naval fabrication slots above that of
Japan.
------------------
Last edited by geminif4ucorsair on Jan 24 2014, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

Post by Balthagor »

Noted.
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Chris Latour
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Re: Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

Post by Aragos »

For US Army bases, etc. this is very, very useful--from the US Army's Command and General Staff at Ft. Leavenworth:


http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/d ... attle1.pdf
geminif4ucorsair
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Re: Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

Post by geminif4ucorsair »

Aragos wrote:For US Army bases, etc. this is very, very useful--from the US Army's Command and General Staff at Ft. Leavenworth:
http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/d ... attle1.pdf
Had not used the site for SR purposes as yet; a full orbat for '36 was provided BG for beta (though not had chance to review)...but it is specifically
as 1936, which also involves a lot of reduction from 100% strength in a wide number of units, representing the reduced status of the US Army in the mid-30s.
ATM, BG is not using Unit Names / Numbers - once provided them for SR-49 - but later will be worth looking at overseas Barracks locations, etc.
Thanks for pointing out.
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Re: Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

Post by BattleGoat »

We obviously appreciate any and all feedback about the historical numbers and we will certainly review your feedback and make some corrections. I agree we tend to err on the conservative side, but we don't want to put too big an economic burden on regions at the beginning of the game and players can bankrupt the nation sometimes too easily if they start too much construction right away.
- David
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Re: Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

Post by geminif4ucorsair »

BattleGoat wrote:We obviously appreciate any and all feedback about the historical numbers and we will certainly review your feedback and make some corrections. I agree we tend to err on the conservative side, but we don't want to put too big an economic burden on regions at the beginning of the game and players can bankrupt the nation sometimes too easily if they start too much construction right away.
If players cannot build to historical limits - which were not particularly high in 1935-36 - at the beginning of SR-1936, then it implies that the economic system is in error (or at fault, your choice). Maybe more research would be needed into the historical economic figures is the un-said conclusion.

The failure to at least include military production facilities - whether Naval, Air, or Land - would make a new gamer who buys the product, think that the research designers of the game did not do their homework, as the old saying goes.
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Balthagor
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Re: Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

Post by Balthagor »

geminif4ucorsair wrote:... think that the research designers of the game did not do their homework, as the old saying goes.
Or if we "scale" properly, then we chose to make design decisions based on the fact that a computer model cannot recreate everything exactly.

Just because you disagree with out design decisions, doesn't mean we made the wrong design decisions.

I did indicate this was noted. We will continue to evaluate this.
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geminif4ucorsair
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Re: Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

Post by geminif4ucorsair »

Balthagor wrote:
geminif4ucorsair wrote:... think that the research designers of the game did not do their homework, as the old saying goes.
Or if we "scale" properly, then we chose to make design decisions based on the fact that a computer model cannot recreate everything exactly. Just because you disagree with out design decisions, doesn't mean we made the wrong design decisions.
I did indicate this was noted.
We will continue to evaluate this.
From a marketing and sales perspective, which means also the game buyers perspective, I would disagree with not having production facilities - especially military production (MILPROD) facilities accurately included in the game. Afterall, it is the most competitive genre out there...you should want to show your best foot forward and that research was done right. Is that also not the purpose of the Forum, to get things right.....

And, your consideration in getting things correct is appreciated! :-)
Last edited by geminif4ucorsair on Jan 24 2014, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Military Fabrication facilities - Corrections Needed

Post by DenisG »

Nice work, guys!

Cheers,
Denis
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