Conquering regions and technology

[Zuikaku]

I have a question regarding technology transfer when occupying/annexing/liberating/colonizing other regions. When region A wins a war destroys region B (annex/liberate/colonize), does certain, random number of techs (unknown to region A but known to B) and unit designs passes on the region A? That would be very interesting to happen but I haven't noticed it. In my game, Germany annexed Poland, France, Denmark, Czechoslovakia, Austria, Belgium and Netherlands. And while survived military units passed to the Germany, that was not the case with techs or unit designs.

And historically it did happen! Czech designs were important part of german war industry untill the very end of the war (especially Pz38(t)s). Germany also continued to produce certain french designs. Allies, and Russians benefited from captured advanced German technology also.

I am not advocating that all unit designs and techs must be captured by the winner. That woul'd be unrealistic (losing side allways tended to destroy, hide them or were just lost in the chaos), but some random part of designs and techs should be captured by victors....

[Balthagor]

There has been some discussion on this, but currently it does not happen.

[Zuikaku]

There has been some discussion on this, but currently it does not happen.

OK, thanks for the info!

Hope it will happen in the future

[Ruges]

With the game engine now keeping track of how many units of a certain design are deployed. It might be a little bit easier when deciding what unit designs get pressed on to the capturing nation. For instance say 10 tiger tank units are built by Germany. that what 540 actual tanks? When France conquers Germany, they should get the tiger design. However if Germany never had atleast 10 tiger tanks in its inventory, then France would not get the blueprint when conquered. They would also receive any prereqs for the tiger.

While not a perfect system. it is a start of a system.

[Balthagor]

I can see some logic in "the more you build, the more likely someone will copy it" idea. I'll reference this thread in some of our notes.

[Aragos]

I can see some logic in "the more you build, the more likely someone will copy it" idea. I'll reference this thread in some of our notes.

It does make a sense and fits into the basic theories of military technology development. The first country to invent something new has to pay all the major R&D costs, etc., and basically gets a monopoly on the first use of the equipment, but it becomes exponentially easier (and cheaper) as time progresses to replicate.

[Hullu Hevonen]

Don't think that all tech should go to the victor, after the barbarian invasion there where lots of ROman tech that went lost for hundreds if not a thousand years. Among them where cement, toilets, piling/sewers to name a few.

[mfisher12]

I can see some logic in "the more you build, the more likely someone will copy it" idea. I'll reference this thread in some of our notes.

It does make a sense and fits into the basic theories of military technology development. The first country to invent something new has to pay all the major R&D costs, etc., and basically gets a monopoly on the first use of the equipment, but it becomes exponentially easier (and cheaper) as time progresses to replicate.

I agree with this idea. But there should also be a caveat on the differing levels of tech.

If, for example, Country A has a tech level around '31 and somehow manages to defeat a hypothetical nation with tech level around '50, Country A might be able to reverse engineer some of the basic concepts, but the metallurgic and machining techniques may make replication extremely difficult, if not impossible, for Country A.

Think about what might have happened had Japan captured an atomic bomb. They had a rudimentary atomic program, but it was nowhere near advanced enough that they could have replicated the precision required to create the plutonium sphere at the core of the weapon. Given enough years, perhaps, but it was not as simple as measuring and copying.

[Zuikaku]

Lack of tech transfer particullarly handicaps early German gameplay. And is one of the main reasons why we still see mostly PzIs in French campaign. Historically, after annexation of Checz republic Germany obtained (then excellent) Pz38 tanks along with their blueprints. And massproduced them! As Pz 38 have better stats than PzI and PzII German AI would build them instead of PzI/PzII so German army would be more powerfull and less likely to be overruned by France.

So, victorious region should get some of the techs and unit designs....

[Aragos]

Good point on the Czech 38t. Germans used them extensively up to 1941-42 and as a light recon unit afterwards. Axis minor allies used them throughout the war.

The big point, I think, using that example was that the Germans captured the factories--the machine tools, et al--along with the blueprints. The combination allowed them to produce the 38t. I could see the same happening if the Axis had captured Great Britain--all the tools were in place to build Spitfires, etc.

[barkhauer]

A game option to have factories continue production after ownership transfer? If that Czech factory was building a 38t when the Germans capture it, it continues building the 38t unless it is explicitly cancelled? Perhaps a lobby option before game start?

[Jakt80]

How about unit designs that are being produced when the annex takes place gets captured with the necessary pre-reqs? Unit designs not in construction but known by the country being annexed would not be captured (however built units will be captured, but not the designs.)

[Zuikaku]

How about unit designs that are being produced when the annex takes place gets captured with the necessary pre-reqs? Unit designs not in construction but known by the country being annexed would not be captured (however built units will be captured, but not the designs.)

I can not see why occupation forces could not obtain/discover some (not all) of the techs and unit designs - even if they are not being built for some time....

[Jakt80]

How about unit designs that are being produced when the annex takes place gets captured with the necessary pre-reqs? Unit designs not in construction but known by the country being annexed would not be captured (however built units will be captured, but not the designs.)

I can not see why occupation forces could not obtain/discover some (not all) of the techs and unit designs - even if they are not being built for some time....

I can see some logic in "the more you build, the more likely someone will copy it" idea. I'll reference this thread in some of our notes.

It does make a sense and fits into the basic theories of military technology development. The first country to invent something new has to pay all the major R&D costs, etc., and basically gets a monopoly on the first use of the equipment, but it becomes exponentially easier (and cheaper) as time progresses to replicate.

I agree with this idea. But there should also be a caveat on the differing levels of tech.

If, for example, Country A has a tech level around '31 and somehow manages to defeat a hypothetical nation with tech level around '50, Country A might be able to reverse engineer some of the basic concepts, but the metallurgic and machining techniques may make replication extremely difficult, if not impossible, for Country A.

Think about what might have happened had Japan captured an atomic bomb. They had a rudimentary atomic program, but it was nowhere near advanced enough that they could have replicated the precision required to create the plutonium sphere at the core of the weapon. Given enough years, perhaps, but it was not as simple as measuring and copying.

Good point on the Czech 38t. Germans used them extensively up to 1941-42 and as a light recon unit afterwards. Axis minor allies used them throughout the war.

The big point, I think, using that example was that the Germans captured the factories--the machine tools, et al--along with the blueprints. The combination allowed them to produce the 38t. I could see the same happening if the Axis had captured Great Britain--all the tools were in place to build Spitfires, etc.

The issue seems to be that since captured unit designs can be built right off the bat in SR1936 it wouldn't be logical but if things are in production when nation surrenders, the whole production setup is already in gear. Not very common designs will probably take years to get into production, or even to get working prototypes if some documents have been destroyed prior to surrender.

While I agree that eventually an occupational force will squeeze most secrets from an occupee(?) it will take time. Perhaps let designs not in production by the annexed country, but known, be available for research by the occupant? Seems like an awful lot of programming to get right tho... but would be pretty sweet.

[DenisG]

Good points here! Would be recommendable to take advantage of the blueprints. Good idea with the 'the more you build, the more likely….'

Cheers,
Denis