Declaration of War

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MikeRegan
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Declaration of War

Post by MikeRegan »

I am playing as Germany and was minding my own business while trying to take over Europe. It got to a point where eventually everyone declared war on me (and I mean everyone). The problem is that the game was interrupted for about a half hour with one notification after another that a certain country was declaring war on me. After the notifications, the game highlighted the country that was declaring war on me. Using "one" notification with ALL the countries listed vs individual notifications should be discussed. However, having the game highlight that country and then having the player manually go back to his country is slowing the game. At least the focus should remain on the country you're playing. Hope that makes sense.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by Zuikaku »

I have one other question - does the WW2 starts even if Germany minds it's own business and does not attack anyone? Same for the Japan - does US impose sanctions on Japan and starts the war even if Japan does not invade China?
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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mfisher12
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by mfisher12 »

Zuikaku wrote:I have one other question - does the WW2 starts even if Germany minds it's own business and does not attack anyone? Same for the Japan - does US impose sanctions on Japan and starts the war even if Japan does not invade China?
This game has caused me to go back and dig out my old books on WW2 in the Pacific. I think if Japan (a) Did not invade China, or (b) Agreed to pull out, US sanctions would not have gone into effect and war would have been averted, at least for a while. The chances of Japan giving up Manchukuo were extremely slim to none. Given the philosophies of the Japanese leadership, I don't see an alternative history where they do not invade China (centuries-old animosities were also at work). In the bottom line, I think the causes of the war had more to do with Japanese militarism and imperial ambitions than with economic needs.

In terms of game mechanics, maybe it should matter whether Japan is able to meet their resource needs through trade or not? If they can thrive economically (positive GDP, trade profits, etc) the game engine could delay a war for a few years. I just don't see how they could not have begun the war at all in view of the ethnic bias of the time.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by Zuikaku »

mfisher12 wrote: In the bottom line, I think the causes of the war had more to do with Japanese militarism and imperial ambitions than with economic needs.
On the contrary, when US sanctions were imposed, japanese economy had a year at best before collapsing and grinding to total halt. The whole idea of going to war was to secure weak and rich SRA (than held by weak Netherlands) and hoping to force US to negotiate peace by a series of decisive naval victories.
That has really nothing to do with specific japanese pride or nationalism. I highly doubt that any other country of that time would abandon it's colonies and hard won territories when faced with such devastating sanctions. But that is now more about politics and less about game mechanics so off topic [_]OT :oops:
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
MikeRegan
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by MikeRegan »

As a test, I re-started Germany on the fastest speed. I just concentrated on Research and made no weapons of any kind. I did not attack anyone, had any direct or indirect talks with any countries. I did not violate any borders and pretty much smiled at everyone. On or about last 1943, many countries started declaring war on me. Even Japan.

But that is off base from my original comment on declaring war. It's an annoying part of the game when everyone's message of war comes on the screen. And I think it's unnecessary. Just wanted to bring that to the attention of the BIG GUYS. They will make the right decision as they see fit.
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Balthagor
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by Balthagor »

I believe if you turn off "pause on events" in the main menu, they will not popup or re-centre you. Not sure though...
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Aragos
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by Aragos »

Zuikaku wrote:
mfisher12 wrote: In the bottom line, I think the causes of the war had more to do with Japanese militarism and imperial ambitions than with economic needs.
On the contrary, when US sanctions were imposed, japanese economy had a year at best before collapsing and grinding to total halt. The whole idea of going to war was to secure weak and rich SRA (than held by weak Netherlands) and hoping to force US to negotiate peace by a series of decisive naval victories.
That has really nothing to do with specific japanese pride or nationalism. I highly doubt that any other country of that time would abandon it's colonies and hard won territories when faced with such devastating sanctions. But that is now more about politics and less about game mechanics so off topic [_]OT :oops:
Umm. NO.

The US imposed sanctions because of the Japanese aggression in China.
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mfisher12
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by mfisher12 »

Aragos wrote:
Zuikaku wrote:
mfisher12 wrote: In the bottom line, I think the causes of the war had more to do with Japanese militarism and imperial ambitions than with economic needs.
On the contrary, when US sanctions were imposed, japanese economy had a year at best before collapsing and grinding to total halt. The whole idea of going to war was to secure weak and rich SRA (than held by weak Netherlands) and hoping to force US to negotiate peace by a series of decisive naval victories.
That has really nothing to do with specific japanese pride or nationalism. I highly doubt that any other country of that time would abandon it's colonies and hard won territories when faced with such devastating sanctions. But that is now more about politics and less about game mechanics so off topic [_]OT :oops:
Umm. NO.

The US imposed sanctions because of the Japanese aggression in China.
Exactly. Bringing it back to the game mechanics, what would happen if Japan did not invade China and there were no oil sanctions? Does the game allow for that sort of alternate history exploration?

Or are historical dates hard-wired in so that anti-historical actions do not matter?
Aragos
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by Aragos »

Agreed. It needs a more flexible system.

Currently, Japan auto DoW's the US on 7 Dec 41. In the game I have currently running, Japan has been driven out of China, lost Korea and Manchuko and is at war with both China and USSR...all before 12/7/41 (on VH volitality).

In reality, there would be no way Japan would DoW the US and UK at that point.

I think that the game should remove automatic DoWs as events and instead use the historical period/events to raise tensions and lower relations. Some events should, IMHO, stay in place, such as the Spanish Civil War, the 1937 Marco Polo Bridge incident and the Czech crisis, but should be more based on either player actions or random chances (e.g., the German player-if human--would get the option to push for the Sudatenland at the cost of relations with everyone else; if AI Germany, there could be a 75% chance that the AI would do it, etc.).

IMHO, some events could not be stopped--the ITL-ETH war, for example, started in 1935. Another would be terrrible relations between JPN and CHN, which started with Manchuko in 1931. But I think we need something a bit more flexible than forced wars regardless of other factors.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by Zuikaku »

Aragos wrote:Agreed. It needs a more flexible system.

Currently, Japan auto DoW's the US on 7 Dec 41. In the game I have currently running, Japan has been driven out of China, lost Korea and Manchuko and is at war with both China and USSR...all before 12/7/41 (on VH volitality).

In reality, there would be no way Japan would DoW the US and UK at that point.

I think that the game should remove automatic DoWs as events and instead use the historical period/events to raise tensions and lower relations. Some events should, IMHO, stay in place, such as the Spanish Civil War, the 1937 Marco Polo Bridge incident and the Czech crisis, but should be more based on either player actions or random chances (e.g., the German player-if human--would get the option to push for the Sudatenland at the cost of relations with everyone else; if AI Germany, there could be a 75% chance that the AI would do it, etc.).

IMHO, some events could not be stopped--the ITL-ETH war, for example, started in 1935. Another would be terrrible relations between JPN and CHN, which started with Manchuko in 1931. But I think we need something a bit more flexible than forced wars regardless of other factors.
Totally agree on this one!
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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mfisher12
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by mfisher12 »

Aragos wrote:Agreed. It needs a more flexible system.

Currently, Japan auto DoW's the US on 7 Dec 41. In the game I have currently running, Japan has been driven out of China, lost Korea and Manchuko and is at war with both China and USSR...all before 12/7/41 (on VH volitality).

In reality, there would be no way Japan would DoW the US and UK at that point.

I think that the game should remove automatic DoWs as events and instead use the historical period/events to raise tensions and lower relations. Some events should, IMHO, stay in place, such as the Spanish Civil War, the 1937 Marco Polo Bridge incident and the Czech crisis, but should be more based on either player actions or random chances (e.g., the German player-if human--would get the option to push for the Sudatenland at the cost of relations with everyone else; if AI Germany, there could be a 75% chance that the AI would do it, etc.).

IMHO, some events could not be stopped--the ITL-ETH war, for example, started in 1935. Another would be terrrible relations between JPN and CHN, which started with Manchuko in 1931. But I think we need something a bit more flexible than forced wars regardless of other factors.
I agree 100%. As a correlary to that, it should also be easier for the Western nations to form an alliance prior to 1941. The US might be slow on the uptake (due to domestic pacificist movements), but as the US player there should be no question that Churchill would accept a Formal Alliance whenever I offer it, without having to engage in months or years of trading and bribes. Same thing with Australia, Canada, France and New Zealand.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by Zuikaku »

mfisher12 wrote: The US might be slow on the uptake (due to domestic pacificist movements), but as the US player there should be no question that Churchill would accept a Formal Alliance whenever I offer it, without having to engage in months or years of trading and bribes. Same thing with Australia, Canada, France and New Zealand.
I really hope that "bribing diplomacy" will be changed after they rebalance diplomacy. "Give money to get a friend" shoul'd not be the only way to make a friend!
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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mfisher12
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by mfisher12 »

Zuikaku wrote:
mfisher12 wrote: The US might be slow on the uptake (due to domestic pacificist movements), but as the US player there should be no question that Churchill would accept a Formal Alliance whenever I offer it, without having to engage in months or years of trading and bribes. Same thing with Australia, Canada, France and New Zealand.
I really hope that "bribing diplomacy" will be changed after they rebalance diplomacy. "Give money to get a friend" shoul'd not be the only way to make a friend!
It's never worked for me, personally! :wink:
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Zuikaku
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Re: Declaration of War

Post by Zuikaku »

mfisher12 wrote:
Zuikaku wrote:
mfisher12 wrote: The US might be slow on the uptake (due to domestic pacificist movements), but as the US player there should be no question that Churchill would accept a Formal Alliance whenever I offer it, without having to engage in months or years of trading and bribes. Same thing with Australia, Canada, France and New Zealand.
I really hope that "bribing diplomacy" will be changed after they rebalance diplomacy. "Give money to get a friend" shoul'd not be the only way to make a friend!
It's never worked for me, personally! :wink:
it works but with absurdly high amounts of money.... can't wait for BGs to change that nonsense... :-)
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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