My Peace suggestions.

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Which peace system would you prefer?

The classic system used in 2020 and Cold War
2
11%
The new proposed system (see post 1).
10
56%
Neither but it needs changing.
6
33%
 
Total votes: 18

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Zuikaku
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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#16 Post by Zuikaku » Oct 26 2013

Thumboy wrote:In my opinion, I like the fact that AI always fight between each other because when you attack them, they aren't ready :D
Or you can also use cheat codes :roll:

It might look like a good thing, but then some stupid wars can be declared upon you from which you can not get out (you are Phillipines and got DoW by UK.
and the fun stops when you can not get the peace, no matter how many invasions you have beaten up... It becomes frustrating, boring and irritant fighting off someone for decades. It is also frustrating to see your important ally getting bogged down in such endless war....
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

Thumboy
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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#17 Post by Thumboy » Oct 26 2013

Zuikaku wrote:
Thumboy wrote:In my opinion, I like the fact that AI always fight between each other because when you attack them, they aren't ready :D
Or you can also use cheat codes :roll:

It might look like a good thing, but then some stupid wars can be declared upon you from which you can not get out (you are Phillipines and got DoW by UK.
and the fun stops when you can not get the peace, no matter how many invasions you have beaten up... It becomes frustrating, boring and irritant fighting off someone for decades. It is also frustrating to see your important ally getting bogged down in such endless war....
This is true but when you play as most countries, nobody DoW you unless they are justified or simply too aggressive. Of course there are some countries which have neighbours which always DoW you such as India from Pakistan and China and the Lithuania from Belarus and Russia. The good thing is that when someone declares an unjustified war, other countries begin to feel sorry for you and begin liking you so one important ally, could become several. I was playing as Russia, and some countries DoW me for no reason, and now I could even ally with the Americans if I wanted too!
Hail Putin!

tommo8993
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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#18 Post by tommo8993 » Oct 28 2013

Well to further stoke this debate. I dont think that I'm the only person who is delaying putting money to this game because of the flaws in some critical mechanics, most notable the peace system.

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Zuikaku
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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#19 Post by Zuikaku » Oct 29 2013

tommo8993 wrote:Well to further stoke this debate. I dont think that I'm the only person who is delaying putting money to this game because of the flaws in some critical mechanics, most notable the peace system.
I'm the big critic of the SR flaws, but I have pledged anyway. But absolute refusal of some BGs to admitt that some aspects of the game are (very) wrong or flawed reminds me of absolute refusal of top IJN strategists to understand that they need more advanced carrier fighter than Zero... until it was too late :P
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#20 Post by tommo8993 » Dec 09 2013

So is anything being talked about with this?

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Zuikaku
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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#21 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 09 2013

tommo8993 wrote:So is anything being talked about with this?
I don't know. Have anyone playtested wars so far?
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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mfisher12
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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#22 Post by mfisher12 » Dec 09 2013

I'll chip in. I have played all of the SR series games until the pixels wore off, but I've been leary of 1936 until there was something to actually see, kick, and bite (eg, playtest).

I'm also a long-time Hearts of Iron player, and I saw how hard it was in HOI for the devs to implement simple things like "realistic" carrier-carrier battles and invasions (something SR has had its own problems with in the past). Still, I can't help but compare 1936 to HOI. They cover the same historical period and have the same meta-strategic approach.

Re: Long wars. Vietnam was at war with France from 1946 to 1954. They were at war with the US from 1956 to 1975.

The US has been in Afghanistan now for 12 years.

In the 17th century, Netherlands and Sicily maintained a de facto state of war for 335 years.

So while I agree about how the AI can get carried away with long unended wars, it's not true that this hasn't happened in the real world. In SR, this game mechanic has been one of the main reasons I've found playing minor countries in Central Asia to be unenjoyable - I have to make nice with Russia or find myself in an unwinnable war trying to conquer everything from Vladivostok to Moscow. If I forgot to turn off "moving capitals", I'm playing whack-a-mole for 20 game years chasing the Russians around.

In previous incarnations of SR, I've seen crazy, unrealistic straight lines drawn across defeated nations with no regard whatsoever to ethnic or cultural boundaries. Maybe ethnic/culture boundaries (or even just provinces) are too much to ask of the engine at this point, but to me it makes a lot more sense than treating India, for example, as a big homogenous chunk of territory with a demarcation like Korea 1953.

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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#23 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 09 2013

mfisher12 wrote:
Re: Long wars. Vietnam was at war with France from 1946 to 1954. They were at war with the US from 1956 to 1975.

The US has been in Afghanistan now for 12 years.

In the 17th century, Netherlands and Sicily maintained a de facto state of war for 335 years.

So while I agree about how the AI can get carried away with long unended wars, it's not true that this hasn't happened in the real world..
You forgot Iraqi-Iranian war also. But these all are just an exception and not a rule. especially since when one side is beaten up and collapsing ,it will try to negotiate peace. But not in the SR.
And Afghanistan is not a conventional war. In SR terminology, Afghanistan is liberated, but have guerillas uprisings due to low DAR.
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#24 Post by tommo8993 » Dec 29 2013

Despite me reservations on the peace system. I have decided to buy SR36 anyway.

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Zuikaku
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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#25 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 29 2013

tommo8993 wrote:Despite me reservations on the peace system. I have decided to buy SR36 anyway.
Peace system is somewhat improved by now and I hope it will be further improved very soon....
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#26 Post by tommo8993 » Dec 29 2013

Yeah and the events system, whilst a little rough round the edges at this stage does seem a huge step forward.

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Re: My Peace suggestions.

#27 Post by Jopo » Jan 21 2014

Considering SR1936 and WW-2, we will be seeing a lot of land grab wars as many nations, even minor ones like Finland had their own territorial ambitions, albeit in the case of Finland only a small minority subscribed to any sort of "Greater-Finland" adventurism, nevertheless the idea was there.

One of the major shortcomings of earlier SR games was the inability to make peace with new borders in place, upon making peace the borders would default back to the prewar status quo unless the other side surrendered completely.

I have a few suggestions, and for that purpose let´s consider a game of 1936 playing Finland;

-National objectives; Could we possibly have some sort of smaller objectives/victory conditions especially for the smaller countries? I mean, if I play as Finalnd or some other small country, there is little chance of me achieving the COMPLETE victory condition, the elimination of all opposition on the planet, so perhaps there could be some other victory conditions to fulfill?

Here´s some suggestions for Finnish national objectives;

1. Survival (simply remain independent until game ends)

2. Retain original territory; Don´t lose any territory, namely Karelia, Petsamo etc.

3. Greater-Finland; If you REALLY REALLY wan´t to test your luck against the Russian giant bear in the east, you can try this; Achieve the so called "three isthmus border" from Gulf of Finland to Lake Ladoga to Lake Onega along the Svir/Syväri river and from Onega to the coast of the White sea. This was the border envisioned by the most ambitious of the Greater-Finland proponents. The idea was to create a naturally defensible border with USSR/Russia using the three isthmuses as choke points.

Now, assuming that you are skillful and lucky and manage to advance to the envisioned border and then manage to hold it until the USSR is willing to make peace, then I would envision some sort of a system of "peace options", perhaps something like this;

These would be the treaty options available;

1. Peace with Return to status quo ante bellum ( return to original borders).
2. Peace as is, borders change along lines of control. Basically you get what your troops control at the time of the treaty.
3. Cede Province/area; This would require some sort of a mechanic to designate regions to be ceded. For example, USSR makes offer, cede part of Karelian isthmus in exchange for Repola and Porajärvi regions in Ladoga Karelia. (This is the historical territory exchange proposed by the USSR before the Winter War)

So, basically I´m suggesting making more treaty options to offer with different conditions.

There´s my two pence worth. Cheers!

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