User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

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Fistalis
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User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by Fistalis »

A UI that doesn't become itty bitty at high resolutions :wink:

(gives his 24 inch 1080p monitor a dirty look and sets the desktop back to 1600x900 for SRCW gameplay)
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Uriens
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Re: my wish list

Post by Uriens »

Fistalis wrote:A UI that doesn't become itty bitty at high resolutions :wink:

(gives his 24 inch 1080p monitor a dirty look and sets the desktop back to 1600x900 for SRCW gameplay)

Hmm, I'm using 27" 1080p (HDMI) monitor and have no problems with UI. What kind of problems do you have there?
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Re: my wish list

Post by Fistalis »

Uriens wrote:
Fistalis wrote:A UI that doesn't become itty bitty at high resolutions :wink:

(gives his 24 inch 1080p monitor a dirty look and sets the desktop back to 1600x900 for SRCW gameplay)

Hmm, I'm using 27" 1080p (HDMI) monitor and have no problems with UI. What kind of problems do you have there?
Just the UI is small enough that its uncomfortable to use for extended periods at 1920x1080. Higher the res the smaller the UI gets.. not a good overall design unless you are increasing screen size in relation to resolution. With a 27 inch it probably isnt as bad.. but at 24 inches its bothersome, I couldn't imagine it would even be usable on a 20 inch at 1080. The UI size is defined in pixels.. so the higher your resolution the smaller the UI gets regardless of screen size. Its something that alot of game makers aren't paying attention to for HD gaming.. that is if you define the UI size as a set amount of pixels and make it compitble with low res systems then you may run into this issue at high resolutions.

Its not something that is going to be addressed with SRCW.. but its a poke for any future game. There are many ways to work around it.. and we could fill an entire thread with examples of how game makers have done so. For players the easy work around is play at a lower resolution.. not a huge deal for me, but many people would be bothered by not using their display at its maximum potential. Its a problem that is going to be more common with the proliferation of smaller displays capable of high resolutions, not long ago it was a given that a higher resolution tended to accompany a larger screen size.

Edit:Side Note: Worth mentioning is that some new games that people complain look "consolized" (Civ V comes to mind) actually look like such due to this exact issue.. the simplest solution being make the UI large enough to be easily viewed at high res on small displays.
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Re: my wish list

Post by Balthagor »

making it big enough for 1920 would make it too big for 1024 unless we do "scaling" with has it's own problems ie it's hard to find a "good" scale for all resolutions. We've debated this issue with each iteration of Supreme Ruler. It could indeed fill a thread. Want me to split the posts?
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Re: my wish list

Post by Fistalis »

Balthagor wrote:making it big enough for 1920 would make it too big for 1024 unless we do "scaling" with has it's own problems ie it's hard to find a "good" scale for all resolutions. We've debated this issue with each iteration of Supreme Ruler. It could indeed fill a thread. Want me to split the posts?
You can if you like, I doubt this will be the last of the subject so it wouldn't hurt to have its own thread.
My favorite solution.. albeit likely not viable for the SR engine... was the one used in FFXI.. the UI actually has its own Resolution setting separate from the rest of the game then the engine overlays the UI over the games resolution. In that instance I play at 1080 but the UI is set to something like 1280x720. giving me nice large UI/chat etc..

Granted were talking about a multimillion dollar MMO in that instance so who knows how many man hours went into such a small option. So although its likely not a viable option for SR i wanted to mention it because other than a totally customizable UI its probably one of the best solutions I've seen.
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by Balthagor »

That sort of solution is possible based on our engine. I know you've played around in the Haps folder which are the puzzle pieces of the GUI, but yes, that would be time consuming. We'd have to make a second set of GUI pieces at the new size stored in a separate folder and use a registry key to specify the folder used. The biggest challenge would be keeping the two versions "in sync" as development continued from the point of creating the second GUI version.
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by Fistalis »

Balthagor wrote:That sort of solution is possible based on our engine. I know you've played around in the Haps folder which are the puzzle pieces of the GUI, but yes, that would be time consuming. We'd have to make a second set of GUI pieces at the new size stored in a separate folder and use a registry key to specify the folder used. The biggest challenge would be keeping the two versions "in sync" as development continued from the point of creating the second GUI version.
Yes Its techincally possible for to me to mod a larger UI.. but the amount of changes by hand to get it done is rather daunting. which is why i was poking for better solutions than that.
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by Balthagor »

Thread moved for consideration in future development.
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by mrgenie »

Balthagor wrote:That sort of solution is possible based on our engine. I know you've played around in the Haps folder which are the puzzle pieces of the GUI, but yes, that would be time consuming. We'd have to make a second set of GUI pieces at the new size stored in a separate folder and use a registry key to specify the folder used. The biggest challenge would be keeping the two versions "in sync" as development continued from the point of creating the second GUI version.
You don't need a registry key for it... if the folder is relative to the executable you can automatically grab the monitors resolution from windows dll which are distributed on every windows installation and have the exe choose between the UI's based on file extensions of the HAP.. if done by scanning file extensions in the exe directory and any subdirectory you can even have it in custom named directories of modders and simply have the modders to add the resolution within the file name within a given format (1024x800) or (1920x1080) and others..

This isn't that hard to program and will allow modders to upload 100 of GUI which can be used by anyone with that specific resolution without BG to tweak tons of possible resolutions..
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by Ruges »

This might be one of the reasons CW put me off and I never got into it.
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by George Geczy »

We're just about to head in to some discussions here at the studio about this very issue. There's a few elements to consider:

- What resolution do most people play at? (ie, above 1280 wide? Wide-screen aspect ratio?)

- If we target, say, 1600x900 as the "sweet spot" (while still supporting lower resolutions, though not optimally), is this going to work for most people?

Unfortunately the two options of "adjustable UI" have drawbacks:

1) - scaled UI - will usually result in display quality/sharpness issues when not at the prime resolution, especially with the amount of detail we tend to provide in our UI.

2) Multiple UI layouts for different modes (ie, a Low and High mode) - a lot of development effort to design graphics and maintain two GUI layouts.

Thoughts?

And what resolution do you like to run the game at?
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by Fistalis »

George Geczy wrote:
And what resolution do you like to run the game at?
Main(new) monitor is 1920x1080 right(old) is 1600x900, left (oldest) is 1280x720. pretty good cross section.. the oldest is likely the lowest you need to worry about unless you want full tablet/notebook support. The main is what gamers are likely to play on.. and the right is around what casual (or broke) gamers are likely to have on PC. Worth noting is 1280x720 is likely to be in wide use due to cheap 720p Tvs. I could have gotten a 32 inch 720p for about 30$ more than I paid for my 24" 1080 and if watching TV was its primary purpose I would have.

My 2 cents... its free. :wink:
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by number47 »

Fistalis wrote: ...what casual (or broke) gamers are likely to have on PC.
:lol: :lol:
George Geczy wrote: And what resolution do you like to run the game at?
I tend to play everything on 1920x1080...
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by Fistalis »

number47 wrote:
Fistalis wrote: ...what casual (or broke) gamers are likely to have on PC.
:lol: :lol:

Well 1600x900 and/or 1440x 900 monitors can be had relatively cheap, and what I was running before I got a new job and bought the 1080 i have. Most new PCs are going to come with higher resolution.. 1080 will soon be standard but you have to consider you can get a 1440x900 for under 100$
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Re: User Interface size vs. resolution (split from wishlist)

Post by WhiteJP »

I play in one of two resolutions ... fullscreen 1980x1020, or window mode 1600x900, and CW works nicely for both, though, i'm creeping up on 45, and glasses are slipping on more and more, so something a bit more higher would be a welcome

James
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