Unit Trades

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Balthagor
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Balthagor »

Zuikaku wrote:The easiest way is to just enable unit trade- the selective one :D...
That is absolutely not the easiest way. Enable implies there is existing code and user interface for this. There is neither.
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number47
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by number47 »

Balthagor wrote:Higher will make it more likely for a region to offer it. If zero, it will never be offered. Our values for market availability are probably off on lots of units, it's an area we don't often have much time to review. This would certainly improve the existing system.

Also, what could be expanded on is having the value change over time based on conditions. Today the US would never sell an F-22. But 30 years from now...
Is there more parametars besides "market avail." that affect AI's decision what to sell? And what determins the total amount of units being offered?
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote: That is absolutely not the easiest way. Enable implies there is existing code and user interface for this. There is neither.
The first step coul'd be that AI does not scrap any units- instead, it offers those units for trade....

But there is part of interface... in the diplomacy screen, last button... we have unit trade... but when we click it, there are no units to trade. Second step coul'd be that we can see units in reserve and require them from AI.
Yes, this can be abused, but many other features can be abused.... it's player's choice after all.... if he wants to cheat/abuse or not....
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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Re: Unit Trades

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Zuikaku wrote:The first step coul'd be that AI does not scrap any units- instead, it offers those units for trade....
This is how it actually works now (ver. 7.2.2) and that's the reason why you are spammed by AI offering thousands of cavalry and recon motorcycle units :roll:
Zuikaku wrote:But there is part of interface... in the diplomacy screen, last button... we have unit trade... but when we click it, there are no units to trade. Second step coul'd be that we can see units in reserve and require them from AI.
Yes, this can be abused, but many other features can be abused.... it's player's choice after all.... if he wants to cheat/abuse or not....
Opportunity makes a thief... :wink:

And I disagree with the kind of system you are suggesting as I belive the one suggested in your previous thread (which I can't find now :roll: ) is much better and more safe from abuse (if programmed correctly). :D
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Zuikaku
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Zuikaku »

number47 wrote: This is how it actually works now (ver. 7.2.2) and that's the reason why you are spammed by AI offering thousands of cavalry and recon motorcycle units :roll:
But it offers nothing else. No tanks, bomber, subs.....

number47 wrote: And I disagree with the kind of system you are suggesting as I belive the one suggested in your previous thread (which I can't find now :roll: ) is much better and more safe from abuse (if programmed correctly). :D
Yes, I suggested in detail how this coul'd be done, but nobody commented that..... If this is what you are thinking of:
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 6&start=15
(the last post)
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by number47 »

Zuikaku wrote:But it offers nothing else. No tanks, bomber, subs.....
AI has no surplus of tanks, bombers, subs etc. in the beggining of the game...(and the way Vietnam and Korea proxies work, it will never have :lol: )
Zuikaku wrote:Yes, I suggested in detail how this coul'd be done, but nobody commented that..... If this is what you are thinking of:
http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 6&start=15
(the last post)
Yeah, thats the thread but I never seen your last post before (and I read ALL posts in this forum :lol: ) HUH
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Tremere »

Balthagor wrote:Higher will make it more likely for a region to offer it. If zero, it will never be offered. Our values for market availability are probably off on lots of units, it's an area we don't often have much time to review. This would certainly improve the existing system.

Also, what could be expanded on is having the value change over time based on conditions. Today the US would never sell an F-22. But 30 years from now...
But you can't ask USA to sell F-22! May be offer will declined, may be not...

Unit trade system in SR is very incomplete...
AI wants to sell only old and useless units

If you produce something you must offer every one, and may be somebody buy it.
More often in real if someone wants to buy something, occurs order on production.
Old units trade segment of weapon trade market is no very big, and most of contracts is about new units or production order.

Of course almost no one country will not sell you new units! These units are part of army. Army is not a shop. But there is no problem to conclude contract on production, only top secret designs will not be sold or in result of bad relations.
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Aragos »

Maybe it is just me, but it would be pretty cool if the option to buy/sell units is shaded out/unavailable if there is no land or sea connection (via treaties or physically) between buyer and seller. The Hungarian/Paraguay trade wouldn't happen, and would not even be an option on the diplomatic interface. Only becomes active once a physical way to deliver stuff is established.

Honestly, I prefer magic transport. Full transport is too open to abuse (e.g., want to make friends? Just give/sell piles of stuff...that will never actually make it to the receiving country--example, sell FF class ships as the USA to India that will run out of gas on the way there).
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Tremere »

Aragos wrote:Maybe it is just me, but it would be pretty cool if the option to buy/sell units is shaded out/unavailable if there is no land or sea connection (via treaties or physically) between buyer and seller. The Hungarian/Paraguay trade wouldn't happen, and would not even be an option on the diplomatic interface. Only becomes active once a physical way to deliver stuff is established.

Honestly, I prefer magic transport. Full transport is too open to abuse (e.g., want to make friends? Just give/sell piles of stuff...that will never actually make it to the receiving country--example, sell FF class ships as the USA to India that will run out of gas on the way there).
It was made for next SR (WW II). Sea caravans from USA to USSR and Britain which attacked by submarines. Do you remember "PQ17"?
During war you can destroy enemy cargo ships, it great deal!
I don't think that transit treaty is very big problem.
Third World War will begins soon....
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Aragos »

Tremere wrote:
Aragos wrote:Maybe it is just me, but it would be pretty cool if the option to buy/sell units is shaded out/unavailable if there is no land or sea connection (via treaties or physically) between buyer and seller. The Hungarian/Paraguay trade wouldn't happen, and would not even be an option on the diplomatic interface. Only becomes active once a physical way to deliver stuff is established.

Honestly, I prefer magic transport. Full transport is too open to abuse (e.g., want to make friends? Just give/sell piles of stuff...that will never actually make it to the receiving country--example, sell FF class ships as the USA to India that will run out of gas on the way there).
It was made for next SR (WW II). Sea caravans from USA to USSR and Britain which attacked by submarines. Do you remember "PQ17"?
During war you can destroy enemy cargo ships, it great deal!
I don't think that transit treaty is very big problem.
The problem is, outside of land units, that you can sell gear to the AI that it can't get to its own territory. Example: USA sells an F4U Corsair unit to Taiwan. Plane is sitting in California. Even with transit treaties, the Taiwanese are never getting that airplane. Example 2: USA sells Taiwan a destroyer escort (DE) that is in Baltimore. It will literally never get to Taiwan; it will run out of fuel, sit in the ocean, then be automatically disbanded.

Different in wartime, of course--anything sold would have to be escorted, etc. Fine for land units, but unless the AI has the ability to get air or sea units to their home country as well, they will never get there.
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Aragos »

oops, hist return too quick!

I mean to add that a great fix would be for air and naval units that are traded could also "convert" to Merchant ships until they reach the buying country. That would, IMHO, fix the problem.
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by number47 »

Aragos wrote:oops, hist return too quick!

I mean to add that a great fix would be for air and naval units that are traded could also "convert" to Merchant ships until they reach the buying country. That would, IMHO, fix the problem.
What about landlocked countries? :x
Easier fix would be to create "merchant air unit with insane range" that would be under UN :lol: jurisdiction and they would have air transit treaty with every country. Every bought unit would convert to new air merchant and voila, problem solved!
Wow, imagine that, UN trafficking weapons all over the world :lol: :lol: :lol:

EDIT: of course, I'm not entirely serious :wink:
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Zuikaku
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Zuikaku »

Just enable selective unit trade :D
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Tremere »

number47 wrote:
Aragos wrote:oops, hist return too quick!

I mean to add that a great fix would be for air and naval units that are traded could also "convert" to Merchant ships until they reach the buying country. That would, IMHO, fix the problem.
What about landlocked countries? :x
Easier fix would be to create "merchant air unit with insane range" that would be under UN :lol: jurisdiction and they would have air transit treaty with every country. Every bought unit would convert to new air merchant and voila, problem solved!
Wow, imagine that, UN trafficking weapons all over the world :lol: :lol: :lol:

EDIT: of course, I'm not entirely serious :wink:
Air units can be also transported by merchant marines. And there is need in "land merchant".
If during transit unit will not be able to combat there is no need in transit treaty. Merchant unit only must avoid enemy territory. This way all problems will be solved.
Third World War will begins soon....
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by number47 »

Balth, SR1936?
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