Unit Trades

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number47
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by number47 »

Balthagor wrote:
Zuikaku wrote:...do you mean that SRCW can never have unit trade implemented?
SR-CW has unit trading implemented now. You can trade a unit to another region. Sometimes another region will trade a unit to you.
Wow, someone's in a "good mood"... HUH
You know what he ment as this whole thread is about it, so this kind of response is plain..."mean" (to remain polite). :evil:
Balthagor wrote:There is unit trading, you just want it more realistic and detailed. Changes of that level will require more work than what can be fit into an update IMO but it remains on our wishlist.
Zuikaku wrote:Now I don't understand this - do you mean that SRCW can never have unit trade implemented? Is it not possible at all for any future update? Or is just update3 in question?
If you feel annoyed by these questions it's better not to answer them than to offer a comment that has nothing to do with the original question because it gives the impression you have no respect for the person posting the question. :-?
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Balthagor »

It is true, unit trading could be improved. See my comment about wishlist.

But it is false to say there is no unit trading.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:It is true, unit trading could be improved. See my comment about wishlist.

But it is false to say there is no unit trading.
You seem to be very hard negotiator :lol:
For the months I've been talking abut selective unit trade issue.
Yes, unit trade do exist now.
Yes, you can sell your units.
Yes, there is lottery system where AI will sometimes offer you something (you don't need at all).
But there is no way to buy the goodies you need.
There is no way to acquire complex systems your country can not build or do not have resources to compete in research with superpowers. and not only superpowers are playable and enjoyable to play.
I'm becoming annoying to myself with this issue for simple reason that I can not get a clear answer |O
Sometimes i wish I don't like this game that much....

I'll take your answer as :"Yes, we'll do something about this issue in update4". :wink:
But I won't call off the crusade :D
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Tremere »

Zuikaku wrote:
Balthagor wrote:It is true, unit trading could be improved. See my comment about wishlist.

But it is false to say there is no unit trading.
You seem to be very hard negotiator :lol:
For the months I've been talking abut selective unit trade issue.
Yes, unit trade do exist now.
Yes, you can sell your units.
Yes, there is lottery system where AI will sometimes offer you something (you don't need at all).
But there is no way to buy the goodies you need.
There is no way to acquire complex systems your country can not build or do not have resources to compete in research with superpowers. and not only superpowers are playable and enjoyable to play.
I'm becoming annoying to myself with this issue for simple reason that I can not get a clear answer |O
Sometimes i wish I don't like this game that much....

I'll take your answer as :"Yes, we'll do something about this issue in update4". :wink:
But I won't call off the crusade :D
+1
completely approve
Third World War will begins soon....
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by icbm78 »

Zuikaku wrote:
Balthagor wrote:It is true, unit trading could be improved. See my comment about wishlist.

But it is false to say there is no unit trading.
You seem to be very hard negotiator :lol:
For the months I've been talking abut selective unit trade issue.
Yes, unit trade do exist now.
Yes, you can sell your units.
Yes, there is lottery system where AI will sometimes offer you something (you don't need at all).
But there is no way to buy the goodies you need.
There is no way to acquire complex systems your country can not build or do not have resources to compete in research with superpowers. and not only superpowers are playable and enjoyable to play.
I'm becoming annoying to myself with this issue for simple reason that I can not get a clear answer |O
Sometimes i wish I don't like this game that much....

I'll take your answer as :"Yes, we'll do something about this issue in update4". :wink:
But I won't call off the crusade :D

+1. But what this game lacks is DETAILS. Details = FUN. And fun is what a game should be about. In its present state you just sit and wait for something to happen (mostly nothing happens). This is deeply wrong! First version of Crusader Kings is good example - stupid and boring, but they've done their homework and CK II is a fun game to play. Now you have lots of stuff to do.

In Supreme Ruler you can't fire and hire ministers, there is no political life, no real diplomacy, etc etc BORING
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Zuikaku »

All we now need is official statement from BG regarding their unconditional and humble acceptance that new unit trading system is needed urgently :D We shall be merciful in that case :-)
and the Holy crusade continues :evil:
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Lord_Draxnair »

Maybe I'm not following as well as I should, but isn't it just as simple as buying the production license, (which can any neccessary techs) and then produce on your own? That's what I have always done with great success. You just need to have cash on hand for the transaction... Which if u wanted to buy an already produced unit ud need anyway. And in rl, when countries such as Russia sell off kilo class subs, they charge an exaggerated price due to their usage of materials in the building process. (Insert Islamic Rep. Of Iran comment here....) Just sayin....
ARE THOSE MY SLBM'S PARKED OFF YOUR COASTLINE??? ..... OH WELL, DEAL WITH IT!!!!!
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Zuikaku
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Zuikaku »

Lord_Draxnair wrote:Maybe I'm not following as well as I should, but isn't it just as simple as buying the production license, (which can any neccessary techs) and then produce on your own? That's what I have always done with great success. You just need to have cash on hand for the transaction... Which if u wanted to buy an already produced unit ud need anyway. And in rl, when countries such as Russia sell off kilo class subs, they charge an exaggerated price due to their usage of materials in the building process. (Insert Islamic Rep. Of Iran comment here....) Just sayin....
It isn't the same. You need techs too when buying a licence. And you need production capacity. In RL countries which have no building capacities or techs can buy foreign military hardware. And that is the whole point. Some poor, undeveloped country can buy tanks for 200 mil. $. But it has no capacity to buiild them or to research techs. With research , those tanks woul'd maybe cost 60 billion $. so, selling country will make extra profit, but buyer won't have to research everything just to get those 4 battalions of tanks.
Ofcourse, now we have to research everything and are forced to tech race superpowers even as Andorra - cause you just can not buy units you need. Even from your closest allies... :-?
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by number47 »

Lord_Draxnair wrote:Maybe I'm not following as well as I should, but isn't it just as simple as buying the production license, (which can any neccessary techs) and then produce on your own? You just need to have cash on hand for the transaction...
No, because you need to have all the pre-requisite tech to buy a design. Since they made some tech (like era-tech but also some other) non-tradable in SRCW, smaller country (in terms of technical development in 1949) needs to spend years of time and billions of $ on research to buy a design to build 4-5-10 battalions of tanks or any other type of unit and we haven't even touched the infrastructure problem. Can you see it now?
Zuikaku wrote:It isn't the same. You need techs too when buying a licence. And you need production capacity. In RL countries which have no building capacities or techs can buy foreign military hardware. And that is the whole point. Some poor, undeveloped country can buy tanks for 200 mil. $. But it has no capacity to buiild them or to research techs. With research , those tanks woul'd maybe cost 60 billion $. so, selling country will make extra profit, but buyer won't have to research everything just to get those 4 battalions of tanks.
Ofcourse, now we have to research everything and are forced to tech race superpowers even as Andorra - cause you just can not buy units you need. Even from your closest allies... :-?
Didn't have to use Andora as the reference (some might suggest that you weren't even supposed to play Andora :lol: ) any technicaly underdeveloped country at the beggining of the game could be used as reference. With current tech tree system and non-tradable techs, every nation in the world needs to enter the space race and develop satellites to open the modern era techs |O |O |O...somehow I seriously doubt that this is realistic :P
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Balthagor »

number47 wrote:...With current tech tree system and non-tradable techs, every nation in the world needs to enter the space race...
Yes, we have noticed this. This was somewhat of a design decision because of the era and the space race victory. The CW map (and data files) are build very much around a Cold War Era and optimized for play as one of the superpowers. In another thread I had talked about doing some tech tree work post update 3...
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Zuikaku »

number47 wrote: Didn't have to use Andora as the reference (some might suggest that you weren't even supposed to play Andora :lol: ) any technicaly underdeveloped country at the beggining of the game could be used as reference. With current tech tree system and non-tradable techs, every nation in the world needs to enter the space race and develop satellites to open the modern era techs |O |O |O...somehow I seriously doubt that this is realistic :P
Let me rephrase:
In real world countries like Syria, Erythrea, Mali, Bangladesh, Thailand- do nod need to have tech levels (and do not need to bother with research) in order to obtain air defense, tanks or fighters. They just need to approach country that produces advanced military hardvare and negotiate purchase.
In SRCW world every small ,udeveloped or poor country have to invest billions in order to get few tanks. Because it just can not buy them. it has to research tech and produce them. This is the main reason playing smaller countries can be very frustrating. You just can not be Saddam and buy thousands of tanks without bothering about industry or research. NO, you have to produce them by yourself.

BGs, please do something about that :-)
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by icbm78 »

Zuikaku wrote:
number47 wrote: Didn't have to use Andora as the reference (some might suggest that you weren't even supposed to play Andora :lol: ) any technicaly underdeveloped country at the beggining of the game could be used as reference. With current tech tree system and non-tradable techs, every nation in the world needs to enter the space race and develop satellites to open the modern era techs |O |O |O...somehow I seriously doubt that this is realistic :P
Let me rephrase:
In real world countries like Syria, Erythrea, Mali, Bangladesh, Thailand- do nod need to have tech levels (and do not need to bother with research) in order to obtain air defense, tanks or fighters. They just need to approach country that produces advanced military hardvare and negotiate purchase.
In SRCW world every small ,udeveloped or poor country have to invest billions in order to get few tanks. Because it just can not buy them. it has to research tech and produce them. This is the main reason playing smaller countries can be very frustrating. You just can not be Saddam and buy thousands of tanks without bothering about industry or research. NO, you have to produce them by yourself.

BGs, please do something about that :-)

Indeed. And there is another problem: combat capability of units in different countries is roughly the same. Somalian light infantry unit = american light infantry unit. That's nonsense. I think fighting capability should depend not only on level of maintenance, but on cultural and educational level of the country also.
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Fistalis »

icbm78 wrote:

Indeed. And there is another problem: combat capability of units in different countries is roughly the same. Somalian light infantry unit = american light infantry unit. That's nonsense. I think fighting capability should depend not only on level of maintenance, but on cultural and educational level of the country also.
That slider is not just maintenance but training as well.. I don't see how thats an issue if you consider that. A country like somalia simply isn't going to have the resources to put into training that the U.S. is meaning the U.S light infantry is going to be much better.
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by icbm78 »

Fistalis wrote:
icbm78 wrote:

Indeed. And there is another problem: combat capability of units in different countries is roughly the same. Somalian light infantry unit = american light infantry unit. That's nonsense. I think fighting capability should depend not only on level of maintenance, but on cultural and educational level of the country also.
That slider is not just maintenance but training as well.. I don't see how thats an issue if you consider that. A country like somalia simply isn't going to have the resources to put into training that the U.S. is meaning the U.S light infantry is going to be much better.

LOL The training means NOTHING if the people you train are useless. Modern wars require high level of education from military personnel. And your example is wrong - in this game it's quite possible to keep somalian infantry on the same level with us infantry. Human player can do it easily. What about saudits? Lots of money, but how long they will last in combat? Israel won a lot of wars against the arabs because there was highly educated personnel, immigrants from all over post-war europe. That's a fact. At the beginning the arabs had more money and resources, better maintenance and more "training", but still they've lost. MEN win wars, not "training". Social structure of the society influences the state of the armed forces immensely.
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Re: Unit Trades

Post by Fistalis »

Ah yes I forgot the Mujahideen that sent the soviets packing were all college graduates, and the veitcong were all straight from harvard. :roll:

Saying the Arab soldiers were better trained than Isrealis shows your lack of knowledge. Officers and Generals in arab armies through the 50s and 60s were generally Political appointees rather than trained soldiers.

Training means everything. For some countries the best educated are the Military due to the education they receive as part of their training.
Training isn't just boot camp... there are things such as military academies.. this isn't something one only finds in places where the population is educated as a whole.

But, lets assume your theory is correct.. then shouldnt Bhutan have the best military in the world?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_e ... gdp-capita

They spend more as a % of GDP per capita per student than any other country...

Or Maybe its Cuba who has the highest literacy rate... :roll:

Or maybe we should go by pure $ amount of expenditures.. then Canada is for sure the Super power we should all fear. Those canadian soldiers are so educated they can catch bullets with their teeth and spit them back at you with their advanced knowledge of physics. :D

While education can reduce the amount of training required to make a competent soldier, its does not replace training. IF that were the case then the first thing people would do in any war is draft the PHDs rather than give college students deferments.

Just give all the brain surgeons a rifle and send them to the front line. I'm sure they'll do fine, they are well educated they don't need any training. :lol:
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