Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

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Schmidty
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Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by Schmidty »

In proxy wars arty and missiles don't always fire particularly far and sometimes don't fire at all until very close range. Currently, you have to click bombard manually for arty to work in proxy wars or in the missiles case, click fire missile and select the target manually.
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Balthagor
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by Balthagor »

This thread feels like a mix of things we've talked about at different times. Missiles and Artillery are two very different functions in the code.

Firing is related to spotting both distance and frequency of checking (which is a performance hit). Missiles in proxy is know. Artillery in Proxy is a mixed bag, it can quickly degrade relations and you might hit things you don't intend. All these features are working as designed, so there's nothing to "fix".

If you have suggestions for changes on this, you're welcome to put forward design ideas, but I suggest breaking them apart.
Chris Latour
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SGTscuba
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by SGTscuba »

I have seen this.

In my current game, I was playing China and fighting the Philippines and they were getting allied help. I would have expected my arty and missile launchers to fire at any units in the area, especially as some of them could quite happily shoot my troops up (using their battleships) while my missile launchers with ASM's didn't always fire at them unless really close sometimes.
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Rosalis
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by Rosalis »

Balthagor wrote:
Jan 05 2020
All these features are working as designed, so there's nothing to "fix".
All i noticed that relations kept dropping in proxy wars, but well anything above low can drop your relations just because of this volatility setting. I think a region would rather get their ass saved then being annexed to the enemy tho.

What's there to fix is feedback to the user. After 5k hours never thought that killing civilians would drop relations. Especially since civilian casulaties can nowhere be seen. Thats the only thing i can think of that the proxy region would be pissed of about. I think there is much understanding in western europe why allies bombed alot of cities in WW2 tho.

Artillery not firing at ships i also seen. What's the reason for this? Those ships can destroy the artillery.. I find the overall response on this very vague. I used artillery in a proxy war against south Korea perfectly fine against land troops i think. So not sure whats up with that report. Artillery doesnt do much damage in modern scenarios tho, so might have missed something. If they have penalties on range or something, i like to know about that.

Missiles i never get, and since AI doesnt really use them too much, i just choose to ignore them. But yeah also noticed that they sometimes dont fire, now i know why or atleast 1 of the reasons. US doesnt seem to have issues with this IRL tho.
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Balthagor
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by Balthagor »

I can agree that the feedback could be improved, that remains on our wishlist.

As for the artillery vs. ships, I'd have to look into it further and talk with the coding team. If someone wants to send us a savegame with an example of the artillery not engaging the boats, we could take a look. Ticket 23994.
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by Rosalis »

Ok got it, no support for missiles, because they got deleted in the new space game.
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Balthagor
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by Balthagor »

Don't put words in my mouth, I said no such thing. Don't be rude, it won't be tolerated. Having supported the game for 6 years since release, I have little patience for someone accusing us of lacking in support.

I said in my first post that this thread is talking about multiple topics at once, all in a vague fashion. Artillery got a precise comment so I opened a ticket.
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Balthagor
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by Balthagor »

Balthagor wrote:
Jan 06 2020
... If someone wants to send us a savegame with an example of the artillery not engaging the boats, we could take a look. Ticket 23994.
So SGTScuba sent me a savegame;
Hi Chris,

I have attached a save where the artillery isn't shooting on a unit which is shelling my troops. I was running this on 3 speed. I am at war with the UK, and the unit the artillery wasn't shooting at was from the Netherlands and fighting me as a UK proxy... (Missile units also didn't fire on this unit for reference)
23944.JPG
23944.JPG (36.7 KiB) Viewed 1175 times
IN this case the artillery won't fire on the Dutch ship because China's not at war with the Netherlands. It won't fire missiles at the boat for the same reason. Improving the rules for proxy is something we have notes on but it is a very big issue. I've passed this savegame along to the coding team for use as a test case when we do look into Proxy.

So to be clear, there is no bug here, the units are follow the established proxy rules. This is a design issue which, as mentioned, is complex.
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by SGTscuba »

It is annoying though, because as you can see, they can fire on me, but I cannot fire back.
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Balthagor
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by Balthagor »

You can give your artillery an bombard order in the right click and it will fire. As mentioned, I've passed the notes along, but it requires a redesign to have this work differently. It's not a "fix" situation.
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Rosalis
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Re: Fix artillery and missiles in proxy wars

Post by Rosalis »

It just has to work right. There is no difference in Netherlands having a ship in the naval borders or an infantry on land. If they have the treaties to defend, then they should be in the war as soon they are in the borders. You could argue if they should stay in the war till its over, (seen "neutral" ships firing outside of proxy borders) but for simplicity sake i would get it working understandable for the user first.
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