Idea for immediate improvements in missile management

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Pandora's Last Ray
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Idea for immediate improvements in missile management

Post by Pandora's Last Ray »

First, I'd like to say great game, great concepts, but there are a mess of improvements, tweaks that could be made. One of the more important, UI-wise is missile management.

First, as far as missile management goes, please introduce missile load profiles. There should be a generic profile and specific profiles.

The generic profile should work on whole unit groups, on whole missile loads. Essentially the ruleset of this type of profile is a default profile such as "Default autoload land-based units with fortification/unit attack missiles" or "Default autoload submarine units with nuclear weapons". It would be nice to have a preference to autoload second and third-choice type weapons, for example if a missile is not available or it's too big for the unit.

The specific profile should work in defining a specific load for specific unit types, and allow for multiple profiles for the same unit. Therefore, using this missile load profile the player could define such things as "load my Aurora with x number of such-and such missile and y number of this other missile". Then I should also be able to load a different profile that would say "Load the aurora with z nuclear weapon", where x, y, z are specific numbers and the missile is a specific missile, rather than a generic missile type.

Also, it would much improve the usefulness of missile autobuilding if the missile autobuild code could look at the profiles that are in use, and build those missiles that are required/available so that no unwanted missiles are produced.
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Balthagor
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Post by Balthagor »

Although work has been completed on Supreme Ruler 2010, I find you comments interesting.

However, this would require one or two entirely new screens full of options and ways of specifiying missiles. I'm not sure this would make the game any simpler. It shoulds like a lot of extra micromanagement. Though I realise that if you're looking for a very specific load out of missiles it is already a lot of micromanagment.

Thanks for the comments.
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Re: Idea for immediate improvements in missile management

Post by Legend »

Pandora's Last Ray wrote:First, I'd like to say great game, great concepts, but there are a mess of improvements, tweaks that could be made. One of the more important, UI-wise is missile management.

...
Although what you are asking for goes beyond what I am about to mention... have you at least come across the unit roles panel (as part of ROE)?

In this panel you can do some of the items you may be asking for...

Perhaps you could take a look at this area and expand on what you like/dislike about it.

I do appreciate being able to predetermine settings for units before they are built, so you don't have to set each one as they complete.

Keep the good ideas coming.
Pandora's Last Ray
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Post by Pandora's Last Ray »

Sorry to take so long to get back on this.

Yeah I've taken a look at the ROE screen and it can be useful in my campaign, but usually I don't mess much with it. Because it can also be just as frustrating in a few respects. It is very nice to be able to set units to use stealth approach for example, attack different unit types, etc, it's been just as easy to screw myself over.

Example: I kept sending my subs to destroy the huge cluster of enemy transports, lo and behold he has a sub there. My subs just sit there while he's torping mine. A couple hours later I figure out that the ROE is set for my subs to NOT attack enemy surface or submerged targets. Having not much of a way to set the change otherwise, I change the unit orders for all units to allow them to attack enemy naval targets, surface and submerged. Then of course my subs slaughtered the other country's subs and transports. It turns out this was the result of my trying to change the ROE for my subs earlier so that they wouldn't keep running back to port 500 KM away when they ran out of tomohawks when I was attacking the port the aforementioned enemy transports sat at.

Granted, I can change the ROE for:
1: All current and future units,
2: All future units,
3: individually,

I want to be able to set ROE for
-- Generic/class/specific types attacking generic/class/specific target types, for example orderingany class of air units in general, or specifically fighter-bomber attacking enemy air targets in general, (hey, some of them do good at that), or to specifically engage enemy interceptors/fighters specifically and ground targets in general, for example. This is would be a way to implement the similar idea someone else had, to have fighter/bombers hit enemy ground-anti-air only (or first?). A rigorous form of this implementation would be to say, "I want all my Ohio/Typhoons to run stealth, slow, cautious, and to only engage when engaged" so I can slip them into the Mediterranian.

-- Generic/class/specific target type attack priority, for example, "Fighter-bombers target enemy MIM-210's and MIM-204's first, then ground anti-air in general. Then target their WS-1B and Urugan artillary. Then you can hit whatever." I realize this one is complex and possibly run-time intensive given all the other stuff going on, but I won't be mad if you can't do it.

-- Apply ROE for all current generic/class/specific type selected. This way I don't have to scroll through the unit lists editing them individually.

And yes, predetermining unit settings is a good thing... I suppose that this could be done in the unit que as well but haven't given it much thought until now.
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Post by Il Duce »

...Welcome to micromanagement.

General tip - since you have in mind some specific ROE for each unit types, make a habit of setting up the ROE the very first time you activate them. You can also use the unit lists in the defense menu to get to each of them by type, but it can be a bit tedious. Overall, if you do this from the start, the overall effort is minimal - trying to retrofit ROE to a large military establishment can take hours.
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Post by radiatek »

I would suggest to add a "click & drag" feature to load missiles into a platform, with a key binded if you want to put a given amount of missiles into that platform (from the missile list), such as SHIFT+click to open a popup windows asking you how much missiles to take.

Or add a third button with user specific number of missiles to be loaded in, between the load 1 and the load all buttons...

Of course templates would be a great thing to save time in the heat of a battle. Some more micromanagement at the beginning, but much time saved after.
Pandora's Last Ray
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Post by Pandora's Last Ray »

radiatek wrote:I would suggest to add a "click & drag" feature to load missiles into a platform, with a key binded if you want to put a given amount of missiles into that platform (from the missile list), such as SHIFT+click to open a popup windows asking you how much missiles to take.

Or add a third button with user specific number of missiles to be loaded in, between the load 1 and the load all buttons...

Of course templates would be a great thing to save time in the heat of a battle. Some more micromanagement at the beginning, but much time saved after.
Yeah, the missile profile loadout for specific units is the sort of thing I'm after. I've also played around a bit more and found a rather effective use for strategic bombers: hitting enemy air units in their hangars/runways. Nothing like killing the other guy's interceptors from out of nowhere and having free reign for my fighter bombers to roam the countryside. It's not like he can build or repair them as fast as ground units...
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geminif4ucorsair
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Re: Idea for immediate improvements in missile management

Post by geminif4ucorsair »

Pandora's Last Ray wrote:
First, as far as missile management goes, please introduce missile load profiles. There should be a generic profile and specific profiles.

The generic profile should work on whole unit groups, on whole missile loads. Essentially the ruleset of this type of profile is a default profile such as "Default autoload land-based units with fortification/unit attack missiles" or "Default autoload submarine units with nuclear weapons". It would be nice to have a preference to autoload second and third-choice type weapons, for example if a missile is not available or it's too big for the unit.
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COMMENT:
If the missile is too big, or weights too much, it WON'T LOAD, based on the game limits (based largely on weight) - this applies whether the missile is intended for a sub, surface ship, aircraft or helicopter.
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The specific profile should work in defining a specific load for specific unit types, and allow for multiple profiles for the same unit. Therefore, using this missile load profile the player could define such things as "load my Aurora with x number of such-and such missile and y number of this other missile". Then I should also be able to load a different profile that would say "Load the aurora with z nuclear weapon", where x, y, z are specific numbers and the missile is a specific missile, rather than a generic missile type.
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COMMENT: Be aware the game places limits already on 'normal' missile loadouts. For example, the F-16 has missile options but they generally are limited to: AAM: AIM-120 Amraam (depending on F-16 version) and AIM-9 Sidewinder;
AGM: AGM-65 Maverick

In the development of the F-16 profile, the aircrafts attack profile is pre-determined to represent the Maverick AGM capability. Thus, attack range is pre-set to limit of 24-km. and Air Attack Range is limited to 8-km (AIM-9 range). The F-16A in the game is pre-set to include provision for AIM-7 Sparrow AAM, thus has a 56-km air attack range maximum.

Unfortunately, for SR2010, there is but one F-16C variant and no specific provision for AIM-120 but various Blocks of the F-16 have been submitted to differenciatedfor F-16A/F-16 MLU, Block 30, 50, 60 etc. variants in SR 2020.

The new submission for SR 2020 changes still has most F-16s with 24-km attack range, but Air Attack ranges vary greatly with version: F-16C Block 30 Viper normally carries AMRAAM, thus given 100-km air attack range; while most other version are limited to 8- or 56-km.

Ground attack ranges vary also, up to 140-km with new Block 60-Plus Enhanced Strategic version.

Various other missile systems, such as AGM-142B Popeye II as ordered for Turkish AF Block 50/52 aircraft - are controlled separately under missile systems inventory, and can be uploaded as such on F-16C Block 50 aircraft.

Similar situation with F-16A/C MLU aircraft, in which Norway used the AGM-119 Penguin anti-ship missile....it is also separate missile type available for research and production (assuming your country has access to Penguin).

Since only two can be carried in either case, and normal practice would not be to upload a different missile on the other hardpoint pylon, the game limits are realistic.
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Also, it would much improve the usefulness of missile autobuilding if the missile autobuild code could look at the profiles that are in use, and build those missiles that are required/available so that no unwanted missiles are produced.
COMMENT: How would you propose the AI is supposed to know how many missiles you would use in wartime?

It's one thing to build 2 missiles for each aircraft that they could fit onto - it is all together another to determine future needs: how many aircraft will you have in ten years, how many will be shot down during war operations, etc. Image you would really be howling if a game did this to you!

for an attack aircraft
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