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Hello, this is my first post. Big fan of the game. Almost done fixing up the middle-east my way

Anyway, I've tried to hype up the game to the people at work, trying to get a game rolling, and so far it doesn't work.

Many folks here are playing "Diplomacy" in a turn-based, 1 turn-a-week fashion. Those who know how to play skip to the next paragraph. It's a very simplistic, diplomacy-based wargame. Basically every week people have to turn in their orders, written on a piece of paper, inside an envelope. At, let's say, 1pm every tuesday the envelope is opened and everyone's orders are played simultaneously.

The awesome thing about something like that is that it requires a minimal amount of time and you can do it "between meetings" or whatever. It needs very little coordination between players. If someone doesn't meet the deadline? His troops don't move. Simple as that.

I look at Supreme Ruler and I see a tremendous potential in making it like that. Here's the way I see it:

You would need a new server application. This application doesn't have any graphics. Could be accessible through a web-based interface to setup the basic stuff : what map is played, how often turns are played, how much in-game time takes place every turn, things like that. The server could be downloaded and installed on a LAN for local plays, or could reside on the net.

Players start up SR, the client asks the server if a new turn has happened. If yes it downloads the file, if not then it gets you back to the current turn. Players then issue orders (or change current orders) to all their troops, ministers etc. They could run a simulation of what the turn would give with A.I. playing other players. They could also run a replay of the previous turn(s) to see why last turn they had a naval fleet, and now it's gone Once they're done, they click "send orders", the orders are sent to the server app. At, let's say, 1pm every tuesday (or 1pm every day, or 1pm and 4pm every day) the server apps run everyone's turn and prepares files that will be downloaded by each client.

I think with a pace like that the game would attract many more "casual" players who love the social, diplomatical and military aspects of the game but don't have the dedication to coordinate games that happen live.

Does this make any sense? I know it's not a minor update, but I thought I'd throw that in there. Maybe for a future game.

It makes sense to me, in fact a similar concept has bubbled inside my head a time or two. I'm not sure wether it will happen but I'd be interested in this mode of play.

(I haven't played Diplomacy in ages....)

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” -Winston Churchill

having played Diplomacy in the manner you describe I would offer these comments.

You could adapt sr2010 by convention of the players to a turn-based mode. You would have to accept some limitations and it would probably be necessary to have a moderator or referee who runs the ctrl-h cheat to verify player compliance - but is not a player themself. You would need to shut off ALL unit initiative, as independent unit activity would interfere with player time-slot activity. You would also have to arrange for the surrender of all WM favors, as these would be quite unfair in this ocntext.

It's a nice concept, but Diplomacy inherited its computer version from a table game. As a non-computer-assisted game, its process logic was significantly limited, and the variety of actions that could be taken on a turn were also limited - in fact, you could look over the board in under an hour and basically list the universe of valid possible moves for all players - so a week was actually a very long turn.

One of the key features of diplomacy - and play-by-email made this even more devious - was the unlimited amount of side-dealing and negotiation on the part of the players: the limitations on moves and unit growth made this the core feature of the game. I suspect that this wouldn't work in sr2010 without some stringent conventions on buildcap and other things.

the best way to approach this would probably be to write some custom scenarios that would emphasize turn-based and sideband diplomacy over unit initiative and minister interventions. A lot of work.

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Colorless green ideas sleep furiously [but otherwise, they do not worry and are happy].

I'm not so sure I'm following you. SR2010 already offers a turn-based multiplayer option correct? (never played it, but I see it featured) There are only a few differences between the turn-based version and what I'm proposing :

- Turns end would take place at set time during the day.
- Players could play their turn anytime during the day, as long as the server app is running.
- turn result would be computed at a set time interval and the results re-downloaded (in a way similar to the way it's happening right now in the turn-based multiplayer)

And a few "nice to have" that would probably require more work

- Players could watch what happened during the turn in some sort of "replay" fasion.
- Players could simulate what's going to happen during the next turn, that simulation would not take into account other players' move so it would be inaccurate but would give the player a general idea.

Other than that, the game should remain unchanged. Minister and unit initiative is a big big plus and shouldn't be changed. If a player skips the deadline then the AI takes over for this turn.

The idea is not to make Supreme Ruler more like Diplomacy, far from it (BTW people here play Diplomacy, but not on the computer and not with PBEM, they play it old-fashioned). Keep the game as-is but change the turn pacing.

The only reason why a turn-based session of SR doesn't qualify is because it requires all players to be online at the same time, so it requires a tremendous amount of player coordination. It also means the slowest players mess up the pace for the fastest players etc.

What I propose would leave the turn-based gameplay as-is but would give players more flexibility in the way they play and the time they're willing to invest in the game.

...The 'turn-based' version simply stops the clock at midnight every day. It's more of a convenience to stop runaways than anything else.

Interaction of units and economics takes place on a continuous basis.

To do what you are proposing would require a process model that 'pauses' for moves at a specific moment in the day, and then resolves all of that over a day without any interruption. SR2010 doesn't really work like that. I have 'days' where I may pause effectively hourly to correct and adjust unit moves, or to respond to diplomatic events, or greentext messages (and see some of the other discussions - notably tkobo's days of setting up 100 or more missile launchers for a truly gigantic assault). I have game days that might take three or four hours to play - and this is based on absolutely NO interaction from ministers or unit initiative. If you have to manage that, it takes even longer (like herding cats).

One notable feature is the battle length time for units - you may need to recirculate some infantry units four times a day to not lose them. Some have as little as 3 hours of battle supply, and you have to push a new stack in and pull the tired ones out. Air support and assaults also work in a similar fashion - a major air assault may take about an hour of game time - and 20 minutes of real-time. and If you can't back out your aircraft - poof, they're gone. Ambushes may work in a similar fashion - baiting an enemy down the garden path and pouncing on them at just the right moment - the scale of the game events is quite small, even though it takes place on a very large stage. Certainly air-landing special forces takes split-second involvement - otherwise the helos spook for home as soon as they touch down.

One of the most vexing problems in sr2010 is fighting on multiple fronts a thousand miles or more apart (happens to Russia all the time). You spend a lot of time pausing and panning when this is happening. You can't just direct some units and have your generals fax you the results overnight.

On the other hand, sometimes I just have to 'coast' for a few game days, waiting for an economic adjustment to have its effect, or for unit repairs or movements - or an opponents' tangible response. Sorry to be skeptical, but I think the way that time is conceived in the sr2010 model simply doesn't lend itself to 'turn-based' play per se. In fact, the amount of micromanagement involved is what basically prevents me from having any interest whatsoever in multi-player versions of sr2010.

So it would require some major re-thinking and redesign of sr2010 to have a true tick-tock turn based game.

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Colorless green ideas sleep furiously [but otherwise, they do not worry and are happy].

I played a couple of turns in turn-based mode. I didn't know you could still control the units during the "turn".

Still, considering you remove that possibility. You always have to plan 1 day in advance. It's feasable.

Sure you will only be able to make 1 air raid a day even if technically you could make 10. Sure if one of your tank gets stupid and moves away from the battle you may lose an engagement. Sure had you had an opportunity to accept the diplomatic offer of your neighbour at 2am instead of having to wait for the next midnight your economic situation would've been better.

But at the end of the day (hehe) every player will face the same limitations, so it becomes part of the gameplay for that particular mode, and balances itself out.

If your thing is micromanagement then this mode certainly wouldn't please you. I'd still like that a lot more than Diplomacy.

I have no problem with the idea of a good turn based game. My only point is that sr2010 by design and implementation probably isn't the basis for one.

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Colorless green ideas sleep furiously [but otherwise, they do not worry and are happy].