New unit commands

[theharrisonater]

transport option, we need one. We have something that says in advanced options that says Transports: No. We need something just like what you guys are talking about. Select a few M1A1 Battalions or whatever and click where you want em to go. Like have them go to the sea and theyll just stay in the ship. Also we probably need a command where it has an option where we check either Air transport Sea transport or Land transport (Land for artillery and infantry.)

[tonystowe]

To supply the troops means to provide bullets, fuel, food, clothing, medical, etc.etc. (yawn - you all knew that already)

In order to fulfill this element in the game I suggest that SR2010 create yet another "unit", sort of, that would act as the military equivalent of a supply depot. This unit would be a mobile entity and while setup it would deliver continous supplies, however when jumping to a new location those supplies would temporarily stop. Before a corps-size supply area moved the player would suffice in building a supply depot in that spot to ensure supplies continues to flow (how long does it take to build a supply depot?).

Let me explain. Take a Corps-sized element who is responsible for supplying four Divisions (in this example) We Need 1x Corps Support Area (CSA) "unit" who manages incoming supplies between the port of entry (or airbase) to the manuever divisions.

Each Division support area (DSA) is responsible for managing the supplies between the CSA and its four Brigades. We now need 4x DSA.

Each Brigade support area (BSA) is responsible for managing the supplies between the DSA and its subordinate manuever Battalions. We now need 16x BSA.

The CSA receives its supply stream from available Airbase or Naval Port (ports of entry) that has a secure link to friendly lines - storing enough supplies for 120 days (as a starting number). The CSA would then streamline supplies out to its 4x Divisions, who can store enough supplies for 30 days. The DSA will push its supplies to its BSA's, who stores 15 days supplies. The number of days of on-hand supplies are negotiable but you get the basic point.

One CSA supplies 4x DSA's who supplies 16x BSA's who supplies the numerous manuever Battalions. Total supplies for the initial push into hostile territory would be considerable and the affect on operations would be greatly changed if any of these critical points were disrupted.

The supply lines between each entity, CSA, DSA and BSA, would not show thousands of supply convoys as that would be too much. The supply line would remain open and flowing as long as enemy troops did not block the routes between any two entities. Troops whose supplies have been cut with its higher HQ's will quickly see a change to their operational capabilities!

If Country "A" inserted an SOF team behind your lines and successfully blocked the main supply route (MSR) between the CSA and one DSA, you would see a tremendous affect on the 4x Brigades supplied by that one DSA.

More of my scatter brained thoughts.

Tony

[Draken]

That's a good idea! I like it. Supplies detached from the terrain.

But (always there is one :( ) I don't think it would be posible with the current game engime... But Goats, please, at least concider the idea for the next one...


I posted a link to a freware game that uses an idea similar to Tonystowe's one. The game it i called People's Tactics and can be found here:
http://www.peoplestactics.com/

Of course it doesn't compare with SR2010 but it is quite good for a freeware. You can use it to get a taste of how Tony's idea would work.

[tonystowe]

The lighting is poor here and I am extremely tired so read carefully!

While playing Nicaruaga (spelling?) today I noticed during my fight with Costa Rica that my injured units would leave the front the lines and drive all the way to my single base to rearm/refit. It is good that the unit realizes that it is close to getting killed and pulls back, however it really exasparates the situation when my front line is quickly thinning during this process. Not to mention the amount of time that is consumed by this process.

I said all of that to tie in with this discussion. If the CSA, DSA, and BSA were implemented, or an equivalent, it would decrease the amount of time a broken unit is away from the fight. Add to that the amount of fuel/supplies that are consumed during the transent to the base and then returning to the front line.

*** LEGEND and team - I need to ask, Why do the units who return to base to be repaired not return to where it left the front lines??

Keeping in mind that a Fully Mission Capable unit should have between 75-100% strength - Had the CSA, DSA, and BSA been an entity on my battlefield I could have easily seen a 50% strength unit go to its BSA and be rearmed/refit and returned to the battlefield in short order; another unit whose ass was kicked and it left the battlefield with only 25% strength would stop by the BSA to receive what supplies it could (lets say 25%), then the unit would be evac'ed to the DSA to receive another 25%, and if necessary evac'ed further to the CSA to be fully restored.

I realize this quickly gets complicated but the game already supports Supply Depot's - although I haven't seen them contribute to the game to date.

In another thread we have discussed Range rings for units such as AD, AT, Arty and Missile units. Each CSA, DSA and BSA could also have an area around it in which it conducts business. What I mean is that these entities could easily support units that were stationary in the hexes surrounding it. With the seven unit restraint this would also ease this potential problem.

Supplies would be constantly moving forward from the Port of entry (or friendly city/base) to the CSA; from the CSA to the DSA; and from the DSA to the BSA. The only reason you should see a decrease in supplies would be enemy interdiction or destruction of the support area. Any CSA, DSA, or BSA that has been engaged will perminently lose a percentage of supplies equal to the amount of damage caused. If a BSA receives 25% damage then it would only be able to support the remaining 75% until it was fully repaired. This damage would also affect every unit under the damaged support area in terms of how much the BSA would be able to give them and continue supporting the other BN's.


Sleep is upon me!

Tony

[red]

It is good that the unit realizes that it is close to getting killed and pulls back, however it really exasparates the situation when my front line is quickly thinning during this process. Not to mention the amount of time that is consumed by this process.

I don't see how this is a problem with the game. Your units are nearly dead, but you want them to be not-nearly-dead? Then they need to repair... Weakest units are targeted, so the unit is lost if it sits in an active hex. I imagine that more people would complain about stupid AI if their nearly-dead units sat on the frontline to be decimated rather than return to base to repair.

*** LEGEND and team - I need to ask, Why do the units who return to base to be repaired not return to where it left the front lines??

I think this would be much worse. I don't see how you could reasonably do it, but assuming even that it worked, I would be very opposed to the AI sending repaired units to the frontline on its own initiative if only because I don't want to be fighting against a presumptuous AI which stupidly sends stand-off units near the front when such units are so weak that they really need protection set up.

[Balthagor]

Funny, I've got to quote the same passages

It is good that the unit realizes that it is close to getting killed and pulls back, however it really exasparates the situation when my front line is quickly thinning during this process. Not to mention the amount of time that is consumed by this process.

You actually have three options here to alter this;
- Loss Tolerence. This is a setting in the unit popup and in the advanced orders. Increase their loss tolerance and they should take a heavier beating before retreating
- Lock the Unit from AI. In the top right of the unit popup you have a lock that will take it out of AI control. It will then not move unless told to
- Initiative levels. The lower the overall initiative, the less the AI moves units around. Below 25% (IIRC) it will not send units for repair.

*** LEGEND and team - I need to ask, Why do the units who return to base to be repaired not return to where it left the front lines??

This would be due to the time required to repair. During the time of repair, the AI has control of the units (in this case anyway) and if the position it left needs a unit, the AI should have already dispatched a replacement unit to that position. When the first unit redeploys, it is available to the AI. If it needs a unit where this one came from, there is nothing stopping it from sending the unit back there. I'm satisfied with how the AI does the repair order. We're probably drifting into a discussion on the AI movement of troops and size of reaction force.

The idea of the AI forcing units >75% health out of repairs and back into the field is an intersting one, but might be difficult for an AI to make these sort of arbitrary decisions...

[tonystowe]

It is good that the unit realizes that it is close to getting killed and pulls back, however it really exasparates the situation when my front line is quickly thinning during this process. Not to mention the amount of time that is consumed by this process.

I don't see how this is a problem with the game. Your units are nearly dead, but you want them to be not-nearly-dead? Then they need to repair... Weakest units are targeted, so the unit is lost if it sits in an active hex. I imagine that more people would complain about stupid AI if their nearly-dead units sat on the frontline to be decimated rather than return to base to repair.

Red, Looking at my comments as a whole you will see that I made the above statement with the CSA, DSA and BSA in mind. To clarify, I would rather my wounded unit evac behind my lines five or so hexes to the BSA than to go 20+ hexes back to the base. My comments were not to insinuate that the current game process is a problem.

Tony

[Balthagor]

One of the key reasons they return to base is that units in reserve repair much faster. The rate of repair deployed is related to the supply level of the hex so even standing deployed on the base (or a supply depot) will increase the rate of repair, but in reserve is still the fastest method.

[tonystowe]

One of the key reasons they return to base is that units in reserve repair much faster. The rate of repair deployed is related to the supply level of the hex so even standing deployed on the base (or a supply depot) will increase the rate of repair, but in reserve is still the fastest method.

Ok.

[theharrisonater]

what about a mobile repair station. Maybe an engineer that can repair units in feild similar to a medic.

[Legend]

*** LEGEND and team - I need to ask, Why do the units who return to base to be repaired not return to where it left the front lines??

I read the above posts and didn't quite see this take on things... which was after repairing units that takes awhile... your lines could have changed. You could be sending the unit into enemy territory. So it's a matter of safety.

On a side note - does anyone wish to compile a list of the suggested orders?

[BigStone]

On a side note - does anyone wish to compile a list of the suggested orders?

I believe its already mentioned a few times....

-Let the player decide (%-damage) when a unit goes into repairs...-

[Balthagor]

I think he meant all of the orders...

[tonystowe]

A refined version of my above post.

* Create one new unit (I will still refer to it as a CSA) whose purpose is to provide forward support to the deployed BN's in both supply and maintenance. One CSA would supply and provide maintenance for "X" number of BN's at 100% capabilities while additional units would lower this potential as more units go to it for support. (Causing the player to ensure sufficient CSA type units are moving with his combat forces).

* The CSA will have notional supply trucks that will constantly be moving between the CSA and the deployed BN's. These trucks will be affected by terrain and weather - each increasing the amount of time that it takes for the supplies to arrive by ground. Enemy situation will also affect resupply efforts as well. If the enemy has air superiority then supply convoys will be in considerable danger. If the player has air superiority then then a potential bonus may apply. The ground action is of interest as a unit in contact that is losing the battle will not be able to receive a full resupply; however, a unit winning the battle will be more apt to allocate its supply.

* Maintenance of injured units is critical and the CSA would be able to perform these activities at 100% capabilities equally on six BN's (7 stack limit right?). Additional injured units can be repaired on the surrounding hexes, however each unit in that area lowers the percentage capaibility of the CSA and increases the time for repairs across the board.

* Program injured maneuver units to look for a CSA within "X" hex radius of its location on its way back to a friendly base for repairs. During the injured units movement it will search within that stated radius for a CSA and if detected the unit will chart a direct (or quickest) path to the CSA's location to be repaired. If the injured unit does not detect a CSA during its move it will continue to the closest friendly base for repairs.

* Manuever units would also have to be programmed in a way that it would search for a second CSA before overloading the closest CSA unit. I am thinking that multiple CSA's would somehow transmit their locations between one another and if an injured unit was moving to an overloaded CSA, then the injured unit would be passed on to the next CSA or base, whichever is closer.


** I do not believe that any specific order should be required to be given to the CSA - other than move to this location. The CSA unit would know its purpose once deployed. CSA units placed in reserve or those remaining a base would not add any bonuses in terms of supply or maintenance.

[tonystowe]

To reinforce my idea of the CSA unit being a part of the game, you all will notice that the KC-135 and similar aerial refueling aircraft are basically doing this mission already.

The difference would be that a CSA would also perform maintenance