Planning an attack

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hafer
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Planning an attack

Post by hafer »

Ok lets say i formed an battlegroup with 30 infantry, 30 tanks, 10 arty and 5 recon. So if i like to attack an enemy region or city i select the battlegroup and give them a move order (or right click) to the spot i wish to attack.

Question: how can i ensure, that the infantry beginn the offensive, then the tanks rush in and the arty left behind the frontline?

It must be a lot of micromanagement? What are the single steps to do? Is it so complicated? I mean really want to like the game, but thats a too big showstopper! What do you think? Am i doing something wrong?

Thanks for your replies! :-)
Last edited by hafer on Jun 27 2014, edited 1 time in total.
swedewolf
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Re: Planning an attack

Post by swedewolf »

I would like some templates to be attached to a battle group. Some generic ones for defence, attack and advance. And some that can be created by some BG/tactical editor to create combined arms effects and handling of loss treshold for moving damaged unit to the rear in the battle group. Maybee hard to do but is a wish non the less. :wink:
Von Bismarck
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Re: Planning an attack

Post by Von Bismarck »

hafer wrote:Ok lets say i formed an battlegroup with 30 infantry, 30 tanks, 10 arty and 5 recon. So if i like to attack an enemy region or city i select the battlegroup and give them a move order (or right click) to the spot i wish to attack.

Question: how can i ensure, that the infantry beginn the offensive, then the tanks rush in and the arty left behind the frontline?

It must be a lot of micromanagement? What are the single steps to do? Is it so complicated? I mean really want to like the game, but thats a too big showstopper! What do you think? Am i doing something wrong?

Thanks for your replies! :-)
For me it is a process. The situation will dictate how you plan the attack, no one way works best every time.

In response to your hypothetical, remember movement speeds differ, and terrain will affect those rates of speed even more. So not everyone will show up at the same time (usually). If you are playing with normal artillery ranges then most artillery units will engage from a distance of two hexes; therefore, don't set your arty units on top of the defenders, or directly next to them.

Hex maps allow you to envelop from more than one side allowing you to maximize your own firepower and minimize theirs. Hardened fast units should be used to assault from the flank and/or behind. They are best suited for this maneuver. Full frontal attacks are the most difficult, because you are unable to bring more firepower to bear on the enemy, but in some situations where a defense is made in depth, it is the only option. Try to use your air and artillery to soften the target before the attack in those cases. Sun Tzu would have a lot to say here, like "attack where your enemy is weakest" or something like that, but I will leave grand strategy out of this response.

Of course, you can always just point and click throwing all your units at a a hex and let the AI sort it out, but that is not the way I play.
Fistalis
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Re: Planning an attack

Post by Fistalis »

use the move in formation button...
Si vis pacem, para bellum
my Supreme Ruler mods Site - May it rest in peace
Von Bismarck
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Re: Planning an attack

Post by Von Bismarck »

Pg 27 of the user manual...

"Move Units at Common Speed will do as it says but is only available if Formation
Move is on"
Common Speed.jpg
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hafer
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Re: Planning an attack

Post by hafer »

I'm still not sure which is the best compromise between automatization an micromanagement. Should i form armies (think they are too big - 200.000+ men) or corps or regiments? And when i put different units in it (which is a must) should i coordinate them in the field? I think this is rather too complicated when i attack a whole front of a country.. should i move the whole formation just to one spot? and whats with the restriction of 7 units/hex? Is the ai so clever to organize the troops in an attack?

Sorry guys but i'm struggeling... 8_ 8_ 8_
Fistalis
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Re: Planning an attack

Post by Fistalis »

hafer wrote:I'm still not sure which is the best compromise between automatization an micromanagement. Should i form armies (think they are too big - 200.000+ men) or corps or regiments? And when i put different units in it (which is a must) should i coordinate them in the field? I think this is rather too complicated when i attack a whole front of a country.. should i move the whole formation just to one spot? and whats with the restriction of 7 units/hex? Is the ai so clever to organize the troops in an attack?

Sorry guys but i'm struggeling... 8_ 8_ 8_
The best compromise is what you find acceptable. The more you micromanage (if done properly) the better off you are going to be in losses etc. Some people don't mind leaving the AI ministers to do everything.. and just building extra units to make up for the extra losses. Others prefer to micromanage everything. The ROE can also be altered to change the way the AI uses troops a bit as well. You just need to experiment with various options and find what you find acceptable.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
my Supreme Ruler mods Site - May it rest in peace
Emeg
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Re: Planning an attack

Post by Emeg »

Hi hafer, you are struggeling with the organisation of your armed forces? Great, because I believe that is where this game is created for! No, I am not joking or sarcastic to you, I am serieus.

Further, is this game to complicated, to much micromanagment? Yes this game is very complicated and if you play it wrong there is too much micromanagment as well. A better question is may-be, how to prevent the wrong type of micromanagment? A good answer is may-be one book thick. Alas, I don't write thick books, sorry. A lot of struggeling have may-be also to do with how in real armed forces are managed. Because you are in your games the supreme ruler/commander this is simulated by the game engine. It gives a lot of the frustrations, but that is the challenge the game offers. It is up to you how you solve this. You need to play with your frustrations, that is for me also the main goal of playing this game. I can't give for you my own specific answers, I am not you. But I have may-be some good idea's. Create an administrative order of battle, a military hierarchy, for your armed forces and use that structure to bring order in how you manage these.

Also a good original (tactical) plan survives until the first shot is fired. Therefore is a good command structure and sufficent discipline in your organisation so important. This to maintain control over the situation, to react as fast and good as possible to the ever changing circumstances and the loom of new unforseen threats. Don't micromanage the ebb and flow of tactical battles. That is the wrong type of micromanagment here. Let the artifical intelligence of the game engine do that for you. It is as supreme commander/ruler your task to have the right strategy and doctrines to compose and organize the formations in your armed forces.

Think before you start, take a lot of time for planning an attack. Before that create a command structure to organize your armed forces. By doing that you create much more order in your brain too. You need that to manage your frustrations. They are for me not the result of game flaws but how the game plays with my frustrations that (I believe) real army commanders feels also. This looks may-be strange, it seems that many players don't use this approch, but I always create a command structure (order of battle) and a table of organisation and learn from existing examples in the real world.

Create a military hierarchy and manage your formations on the map based on that! Don't start a war or campaign before you are prepared. How are the formations in the command structure composed? What is my general strategy and based on that the doctrines for my armed forces? What kind of units (battalions, squadrons, ships) are needed to create specific formations? In my armed forces are brigades, air wings and flottila's my basic formations. In the doctrine for my armed forces are only brigades, air wings and naval flottila's used to attack specific individual map hexes. My larger formations (never larger than an Army Corps) are always moving with the "move in formation" and "move with common speed" options active and are not directed to attack specific hex. I use larger formations only to to control a larger area around a specific map location. The use of individiual units is only reserved for rare tasks, this is not a common doctrine.

One of the remarkable aspects of this game that is there is not a command structure present, being supreme commander it is my own job to create one. The game has a limited but sufficent tool to create a realistic structured military hierarchy for your armed forces. Doing this is for me a part of the fun I have with this game. I have written a tutorial how to create an order of battle and posted it already elswhere on this forum.

See: http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 15#p162173

With regards, Emeg
hafer
Warrant Officer
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Re: Planning an attack

Post by hafer »

Emeg, thank you for your nice post. I ve also read your previous post (oob-organisation).

These are all very good points and i'm thinking in the same direction. I think the best part of it is:
"Let the artifical intelligence of the game engine do that for you. It is as supreme commander/ruler your task to have the right strategy and doctrines to compose and organize the formations in your armed forces."
At the moment thats my style of playing the game.

Again thank you very much for your points! :-)
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