Alaska and Hawaii

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ForTheRepublic
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Alaska and Hawaii

Post by ForTheRepublic »

So, I'd hate to be "that guy", but Alaska and Hawaii should technically be colonies of the US, since they weren't states until after WWII had concluded. Any chance of that being an update, or is it just not happening?
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Plus that way you can actually change history by granting them independence if you want to
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Zuikaku
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by Zuikaku »

Not sure about that.
Hawaii were annexed by US in 1898, so they were not a colony after that. they were colony after US overthrown the queen in 1893. Anyway, maybe Hawaiian hexes should be loyal to Hawaii, but that is questionable too....

As for Alaska, it was annexed/bought in 19th century. Russians left, so hexes are loyal to US. It is also not a colony in any way...
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Yeah, but they weren't truly annexed as states, but territories, which technically puts them out of the US constitution, if I'm not mistaken, please correct if I'm wrong.
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by Zuikaku »

Hullu Hevonen wrote:Yeah, but they weren't truly annexed as states, but territories, which technically puts them out of the US constitution, if I'm not mistaken, please correct if I'm wrong.
Here is what the history says:

"It was not until a change in administrations to President William McKinley that the Republic of Hawaiʻi succeeded in its goal when in 1898, Congress approved a joint resolution of annexation creating the U.S. Territory of Hawaiʻi. This ostensibly followed the precedent of Texas, which was also purportedly annexed by a joint resolution of Congress after failure to obtain a treaty of annexation."

The republic declared in 1893 was de facto US colony, but that republic was formaly annexed 5 years later...
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
ForTheRepublic
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by ForTheRepublic »

Even so, it and Alaska were not fully admitted as states until the late 1940's. Therefore, they should be colonies.
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by Zuikaku »

ForTheRepublic wrote:Even so, it and Alaska were not fully admitted as states until the late 1940's. Therefore, they should be colonies.
Territory is not a colony.
Phillippines were a colony.
Hawaii were not.
Alaska also was not a colony by that time in any way...
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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number47
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by number47 »

If we look at this "issue" from the game engine standpoint, it can only be portrayed as part of US or as a US colony. Those territories being portayed as part of US is a lesser error than other way around. :wink:
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by Hullu Hevonen »

Colony is not the same as territory, yes, but it is not the same as an fully annexed territory. Hawaii was in essence a part of the US territory, but not part of the United States itself. With the Organic Act Hawaii was granted a government of it's own. Thus Hawaii had a governor from the mainland US, similar to the Governor-General of the British Raj. There for I think a Colony is the best representation, while adding an annexation event for 1959, when Hawaii became an state.

EDIT: or a better comparison would be a current British dependency, like the Falklands for example
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number47
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by number47 »

I disagree that colony status would be better representation for those territories. Even though it is not entirely correct, annexation is less wrong than colony status.
Organized incorporated territories of the United States
An incorporated territory of the United States is a specific area under the jurisdiction of the United States, over which the United States Congress has determined that the United States Constitution is to be applied to the territory's local government and inhabitants in its entirety (e.g., citizenship, trial by jury), in the same manner as it applies to the local governments and residents of the U.S. states. Incorporated territories are considered an integral part of the United States, as opposed to being merely possessions.[12]
Alaska
The Territory of Alaska or Alaska Territory was an organized incorporated territory of the United States that existed from August 24, 1912, until January 3, 1959, when it was admitted to the Union as the State of Alaska. The territory was previously the District of Alaska, created on May 17, 1884.
Hawaii
The Territory of Hawaii or Hawaii Territory[1][2][3] was an organized incorporated territory of the United States that existed from July 7, 1898, until August 21, 1959, when its territory was admitted to the Union as the fiftieth U.S. state, the State of Hawaii.
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ForTheRepublic
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by ForTheRepublic »

If that's the case, then Puerto Rico should be a direct part of the United States as well. They are a commonwealth after all, and are pretty much a state in everything but officiality, so wouldn't it make more sense to have them directly owned as well, since they too are more than mere possessions?
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by Rhaycen »

To this day, people born in Puerto Rico can choose to be US citizens or PR citizens. While 99% of them have and keep US citizenship, this was never an option or a question in Hawaii or Alaska.

Both Hawaii and Alaska were very much part of the United States at the time, they just didn't have statehood. Just like Washington DC isn't part of a state, they were controlled on a Federal level at the time. Unless you're suggesting that Washington DC should be seen as a colony too?

To this day, PR is still more of a colony of the US as are some other US controlled territories. Hawaii and Alaska weren't colonies, even if they have/had indigenous population that didn't/don't consider themselves Americans all the time.
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by ForTheRepublic »

You have a point, but the federal government exercises direct control over Washington DC, which was not the case with Alaska and Hawaii at the time, as was mentioned previously on this thread.
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by ForTheRepublic »

I could just be completely wrong, lol. I was just throwing it out there.
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Re: Alaska and Hawaii

Post by Legend »

Colonization is a tricky subject. For our game purposes Hawaii and Alaska are not colonies. They are part of the US. We don't have any grey areas so it's either a colony or it's not. Not being an official state does not by default put an area of our map as a colony. While not quite states of equal standing, they were territories of the US and don't fall under colony status, like most other colonies.

I agree, that it's less wrong to be part of the USA than colonies.
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