Island hopping

[GIJoe597]

I have been reading everything, watching the videos with a grimace.... So far I have not seen any reference to Japans or indeed the allies’ ability to launch naval invasions in the pacific, or Europe for that matter, D-Day? As I have typed in another thread, I cannot comprehend a WW II game without a functioning Naval/Aircraft Carrier fleets. Nor can I abide one where the Pacific powers do not have the ability to gather sufficient forces, load units and move a protected invasion fleet to various islands/ports.

I am typing about the AI of course. None of the videos I have seen nor any speeches depicted show any naval warfare or movement at all, I am worried. The whole point of the Japanese declaring war on the U.S.A. was to knock them out long enough to be able to fulfill their plans for conquest, for resources, without intervention. (Leaving aside all the political reasons why Japan needed more resources) Japan launched many amphibious invasions throughout the Pacific to accomplish their goals.

Will the AI be able to do the same in a logical manner? Assemble transports, assign escorts, move to island, port or coast, initiate invasion with practical forces to accomplish the mission, not a couple of recons and 1 arty.


This, in conjunction with naval warfare is really what it is all about to me. Everything else is just like any other war, land combat, but WW II was much more a naval conflict than any other in history. As I have typed elsewhere it was the rise of the Aircraft Carrier as a dominating naval power that exists until this day.


Any Dev comment/update on the Naval side?

[Zuikaku]

I think that we have now reached the point where we are asking BG2 more qoustions than they can handle at the moment. So, if someone from the BGs read this, I think that the best possible solution for all this "human wave of questions" would be if you just give us what have been improved from previous SR titles and which new features are in SR1936...

[Mission Space]

Probably one of the more important questions for this game. Without intelligent naval and amphibious warfare the pacific would be a disaster

[GIJoe597]

Not just the Pacific, imagine if the ai cannot perform Neptune into Europe...

[Kellick]

+1.
Anyone who has been around any amount of time knows the military AI is pretty sad, and nowhere is it more painfully obvious than when we hit the water.

[GIJoe597]

I want to add a caveat to your post Kellick, the ai is not sad, it is good when it has adequate resources. I have proven this time and time again in the games I have played and even documented it in a few AAR's. The most recent being a mini AAR where AI Russia conquered the entire European/Asian/African continents when given adequate resources.

But I understand the gist of what you mean, what we see mostly is the lackluster performance when attacking in ones or twos which I believe is caused by units coming out of repair and heading to a "hotspot" the ai has marked. I agree the ai could use more work as could any games ai, but wanted to point out the AI can and will function decently.

Now, it is fairly primitive concerning the navy, yes. It can do basic things, I have seen U.S.A. subs patrolling (actually moving) around Cuba for instance, or the above mentioned Russian ai blockading the Panama Canal.

Naval invasions for 2020 were always low burner as BG correctly pointed out that who in their right mind would do so in the 21st century, very few, perhaps 2 or 3 countries would even attempt it.
But now we are entering a different era, a different century even, an era of intense naval warfare/use.

To wrap up, I am not antagonistic in my op, I think BG know I support them in at least one of their games and I WANT to like 1936, which is why I type the couple of questions I have concerning it so far.

Now, let’s talk about Para drops in WW II....

[Fistalis]

George has responded to this somewhere. I can't locate the exact post. But to summarize Naval AI is a top priority. Especially due to the setting.

[Kellick]

If by saying "it's good when it has adequate resources" you mean it can zerg and not much else then I agree with you. I enjoy your AARs, but Russia wasn't given adequate resources in that game, it was given an overwhelming advantage.

The land AI copes because it will just keep sending units, and both attacker and defender will trickle units into the front. So even though the AI doesn't know the concept of massing units and combined arms, it tends to form on it's own somewhat. When it manages to do anything intelligent with aircraft it's also very accidental.

Since on the open sea there is no front, there's nothing to keep units together. Also I don't know what you're seeing that you consider a patrol, part of the big problem is the AI doesn't patrol, it may send ships out and park them offshore, but that's about it.

Play some small island country in 2020 and turn FOW off and just watch the game play for a few years. The AI given the most powerful surface fleet on the planet can't even make use of it. Try it with Ruges aiparams even. While I have seen the AI USA manage to blockade Cuba with a mix of ships, including subs and carriers with aircraft actually embarked, it seems like it's more by accident than anything else. It's probably because GTMO is US territory that invariably is lost to Cuba so it triggers a def response. Other than amphibious assaults, which the AI will attempt with a vengeance actually, it's just that as you noted it sends whatever units it has (which often is rcn and art), and only transports. Now they will stop and wait for safe passage if they detect an armed ship (that doesn't have missiles to take them out) but they don't seem to call for an escort to come clear the way for them.

Granted the biggest naval problem in 2020 is I don't think the AI ever issues the sea attack order. It also will not use transports in the naval supply order (I know it issues the order, since I have seen it send cargo planes to ships in the middle of the ocean; which does nothing since ships cant be supplied by fixed wing. I tested setting it to all choppers, but then it just leaves them out there until they crash). The amphib assault being all hardcoded we can only observe how it seems to work, which is to just grab whatever "dock to unload=false" ships it has (type 20 or 16), load them up with all units and send them on their merry way.

I haven't observed enough in CW to see if there is much improvement there. Being how the AI seems to like to suicide units via merchant marine I'm not holding my breath.

[GIJoe597]

I had a nice eloquent post typed out, spell checked etc, then decided, screw it, I am too tired..


Spent the last 6 hours trying to find and solve an issue with my main gaming computer.

[number47]

I had a nice eloquent post typed out, spell checked etc, then decided, screw it, I am too tired..


Spent the last 6 hours trying to find and solve an issue with my main gaming computer.

So, any luck?

[Vish_Virtus]

+1.
Anyone who has been around any amount of time knows the military AI is pretty sad, and nowhere is it more painfully obvious than when we hit the water.

It could use one extra level of aggressiveness and Buff-ness, but considering what this game does it is amazing. There is no other RTS with AI at this level considering how many units and countries are running at the same time. Most other games are 1 or max out at 8 AI.....

[Hullu Hevonen]

I agree, +10 or whatever , 2 of the biggest naval battles in history occured during the same war and same theatre of that war, namely WWII and the Pacific theatre.