Unit Errata

[number47]

What is Mounted Infantry (unitID 62 & 153) mounted on?
I thought it was mounted on a horse but when I compared the speeds with Cavalry (ID1005) it was clear I thought wrong.
Since we have a unit in game called "Motorized Infantry" you can understand how I logicaly thought that "Mounted Infantry" is infantry mounted on horses (since they are not mounted on motorized vehicles).

Can BG clarify this "mounting" conundrum?

[Balthagor]

Actually Gemini could better explain it but as I recall "mounted" would use a very simple vehicle, a truck or open top car. "Motorized" is more jeep-like with potential for a stabilized weapon and forces trained for mobility in action.

[number47]

Actually Gemini could better explain it but as I recall "mounted" would use a very simple vehicle, a truck or open top car. "Motorized" is more jeep-like with potential for a stabilized weapon and forces trained for mobility in action.

Maybe it would be better than to use a Cargo Truck picnum 224 (or if Stephane is in the mood he could easily and re-model this mesh without tarpaulin and use that instead just to avoid the confusion ) than the current picnum 475 that is the same as Motorized Infantry?

[number47]

UnitID 14226 C-123K Provider should have 11 t (132 t total air wing) cargo capacity instead the current 6,8 t (total 82 t)...

UnitID 14202 An-12 Cub-A should have 20 t (240) cargo capacity instead current 9,55 t (total 115t )...also, the current range of 2688 km is possibly too low but I'm still looking for reliable source on that (I found ranges around 5700 km and even max payload range was 3600 km).

UnitID 14222 C-141B Starlifter as far as could find had ferry range in region from 9800 km to 10200 km depending on source but the current ingame range is set to 19760 km???

EDIT: Also these are one of the very few units (4-5 I found so far) where you used the max payload range instead of ferry range (or max fuel range) used in other air transport units. I wonder if this was intentional since it brings serious disbalance between the units. In case of C-123K there is a quite a difference between currently used max payload range (1666 km) and his max fuel range (2350 km)?

[number47]

Need help identifiying these 2 units located in "East Europe" region code...

1. UnitID 4710, "AS90P Braveheart 155mm", tech lvl 102
2. UnitID 4725, "AS90P-2 Braveheart 155mm", tech lvl 104

If these represent Polish version/modification of AS90 then they should be renamed "AHS Krab 155mm" and "AHS Krab 2 155mm". If they don't, then the region code should be changed to UK...

[MK4]

Need help identifiying these 2 units located in "East Europe" region code...

1. UnitID 4710, "AS90P Braveheart 155mm", tech lvl 102
2. UnitID 4725, "AS90P-2 Braveheart 155mm", tech lvl 104

If these represent Polish version/modification of AS90 then they should be renamed "AHS Krab 155mm" and "AHS Krab 2 155mm". If they don't, then the region code should be changed to UK...

Yes, in my opinion they are the Polish Krab. In my game I`ve renamed them to AHS Krab 155mm and AHS Krab-2 155mm respectively. It is also worth pointing out that the Braveheart to my knowledge is the name for the british upgrade to the AS90 that was supposed to lengthen the caliber of the gun(which in reality never went into production). As a result, the name of the AS90-2 155mm should be AS90 Braveheart 155mm. I can only presume that the in game Polish AS90P-2 was meant to be its hypothetical equivalent.

Consequently, I propose that these three units are renamed:

AS90P Braveheart 155mm - to - AHS Krab 155mm
AS90P-2 Braveheart 155mm - to - AHS Krab-2 155mm
AS90-2 155mm - to - AS90 Braveheart 155mm

You could check the wiki on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS90#Variants
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AHS_Krab
Several specialized sites and books also mention this.

[Col_Travis]

The dutch Leanders, the F802 Van Speijk and Van Speijk ASW, unit #'s 18720 & 18404 have there ranges in miles (4500) the actual range should be 7245 km.

Unit #18822 F125 Wolfsburg should be named F125 Baden-Württemberg.

[number47]

Both aircraft have been looked at in the data base and Attack Range amended to reflect AGM-65B Maverick supplied Yugoslavia -
using 20-km (not the full 22-24-km often used depending on model) - but close. The G-4 has now also been re-designated proper "G-4M" version, and various corrective data has been entered for both G-4M and J-22 Orao-2 aircraft (including air-to-air rating change).

Hope that helps!

I just checked these two units in beta update 7.259. I'm not sure are these your or Balthagors corrections but I have some questions to make.

-why was both units weight reduced to their „empty weight“ when all other air units in the game use „max take-off weight“(some use gross weight or something in the middle between gross and max)?
-why was G-4's speed reduced to „cruising speed“ when all other air units in the game use „max speed“?
-why was G-4's range reduced to „combat range“ when all other air units in the game use „max range“ (some even ferry range)?

-also, this wasn't part of the correction but I just realized that both J-22 (24M $) and G-4 (28M $) in the game have quite inflated „cost to build“ compared to F-16C (25.7M $). This can't be right...as all sources I could find for G-4 mention prices between 4.25M-4.5M per unit (in 2002 US $)and for J-22 around 4M US $. What source did you use for your „prices“?

Oh, when I say "all other air units in the game" I mean most of other air units in the game (as in over 90%) (tested on F-16C, Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale C, Mig-35, JAS-39, A-4 Skyhawk, AV-8B Harrier II, etc.).

Battlegoat should really unify the stats assigning methods (at least the "technical" ones like weight, speed, range, etc.) as current ones cause a lot of discrepancies and in-game disbalances. These mentioned here in this post and the ones mentioned just few posts above this one are just a tip of an iceberg.

Disclaimer: This post is written in good faith and is meant to be constructive.

P.S. I could offer assistance in identification of all disputable units but without unified method and your (Battlegoat's) willingness to correct those discrepancies, I'm kind of reluctant to start the review.

[Balthagor]

...Battlegoat should really unify the stats assigning methods (at least the "technical" ones like weight, speed, range, etc.) ...

As you can imagine, setting and applying standards on >5000 units with >150 stats each is sort of a large task. We have a "standards" document for the equipment list. It's more than 50 pages long and incomplete in some sections.

Unit weight for air units should always be empty weight.
Unit speed for SRCW is cruise speed or 80% of max speed.
Unit range for air units is "combat range", not ferry range. [Edit: oops, got this wrong, it's "normal range" not combat range.]

Costs rarely have sources and often quote dollars in different "years" (50M in 1980 is much different than 50M in 1960) so is one of our bigger challenges.

The goal remains to make things properly relative even if not always right. Some standards applied to SRCW were not reapplied to existing SR2020 units to to limited development resources.

[number47]

Costs rarely have sources and often quote dollars in different "years" (50M in 1980 is much different than 50M in 1960) so is one of our bigger challenges.

Understandable, but I highly doubt 4M US$ in 2002 was ever 26M US$

Unit weight for air units should always be empty weight.
Unit speed for SRCW is cruise speed or 80% of max speed.
Unit range for air units is "combat range", not ferry range.

The goal remains to make things properly relative even if not always right. Some standards applied to SRCW were not reapplied to existing SR2020 units to to limited development resources.

Fair enough, my mistake was that I checked more modern units instead of older ones. I'll only check units with tech level lower than 90 than...and report where unit stats don't correspond to those three parametrs you gave me. One question though, what is the "proper" range for air transport units?

[Balthagor]

Avoid "ferry range" values. I'd have to look up the details in the 52 pages...

[number47]

Unit range for air units is "combat range", not ferry range.

Avoid "ferry range" values. I'd have to look up the details in the 52 pages...

Just to set something straight, I never suggested that air units should use ferry range...I was just pointing out that opposed to the change you made, majority of the units in the game use max range and some even ferry range...some like C-141B Starlifter /unitID 14222/ use SciFi ranges (I know it is probably a mistype but it's still funny )

-why...snip...when all other air units in the game use „max range“ (some even ferry range)?

EDIT: also, isn't combat range "the distance from an airbase that a warplane can reach, patrol there for a set amount of time and return to base with minimal fuel left"? Doesn't that mess up the "one-way flights" (from point A to point B)?

[Balthagor]

also, isn't combat range "the distance from an airbase that a warplane can reach, patrol there for a set amount of time and return to base with minimal fuel left"? Doesn't that mess up the "one-way flights" (from point A to point B)?

Range is how far out the aircraft can go and still get home in game. It understands that it can reach another airfield that is twice that distance.
Edit: Okay, I was wrong, you are correct. We in some cases for lack of "normal range" used combat rangex2

Range is an area that could certainly use more QA if there were more time/resources.

I dumped your and my follow up posts to avoid confusion (well, further confusion...)

[number47]

Balth, just in case you haven't changed it since ver. 7.259:

ID10240 should use picnum 492
ID10272 should use picnum 492

[ShadowFox]

Something I've noticed in the naming issue on the American M46 tank. You have it listed as a Pershing when the M46 should be properly named as a Patton. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M46_Patton The M26 and variants therein should be listed as Pershings but anything with the M46,M47,M48 and M60 medium tank/MBT headings should be named as a Patton.