Modding/changing spotting strengths?

[domcoppinger]

After a quick root around the forums I have been unable to find out anything relating to how to mod spotting values. Well actually that isn't entirely true as I have read through the wiki article, posted at the bottom for anyone who hasn't read it but wants to, which has explained most of the stuff relating to spotting and stealth. However I am looking to improve the spotting values of a few units and am not sure how I would go about doing this. As far as I can tell the spotting types all have a corresponding value and these are all hard coded. However I refuse to believe that no one has worked out how to change them, or that they can't be changed given the shear number of units with varying spotting strengths.

So if anyone nows how I can boost the spotting strength of my favourite AWACS and lower that of a generic ground unit I would be eternally grateful if you could share this knowledge.

(http://www.supremewiki.com/index.php/Spotting_Types)

[domcoppinger]

Could it just be that the second column is the spot strength? Or is that to simple? Although in saying that the table on the wiki does imply that the strengths are fixed depending on the spot type...!

I really have no clue!

Edit: Nah scratch that, it is definitely not the second column, sadly it is looking more and more like they are hard coded!

[Fistalis]

the table on the wiki does imply that the strengths are fixed depending on the spot type...!

EDIT: I've been up for too long. There is spotting.csv in the INI folder. I haven't personally modified it so can't say if it works or not.. but don't see why it wouldn't.

If you want to change a units spotting simply give them a better spotting type. Its already increased if you use the enhanced spotting option to almost double the range. But if there is specific units you want to increase just give them a better spotting type. The second value is for precision spotting and or units that have more than one type of spotting type. radar/sonar etc.

like usual it will require a recache to see the changes.

Example: A unit has a 75 spotting type.
To increase the strength find something with the ~same range but a higher strength.
Change to a 77 would increase the strength.

If you wanted to improve it even more stick a sonar type in the second section. But those are so good they can detect most stealth units including subs. They have less range than many of the radar types but their strengths are off the charts.

In the above example you could then stick a 580 in the second spotting value and your unit would pretty much be capable of spotting anything.

Or you could stick in a second radar type to improve its overall spotting range(230 for example). or a strong short range radar to help with stealth units on the shorter range etc (1 for example). There are many different combinations.

[domcoppinger]

So no spotting type has a particular unit type it can spot, sonar for example isn't limited to naval units only? Or is this horrendously wrong, because it does sound a little implausible.

Although I suppose if there were no hard coded limitations like that it wouldn't matter for the devs as they would just ensure that they only ever used certain spotting types with certain units, for example if they only ever used the powerful sonar spotting types with naval vessels it wouldn't matter if they could spot other units as they are limited to only traversing the sea anyway.

Still does sound like I am wrong though...

[Balthagor]

So no spotting type has a particular unit type it can spot, sonar for example isn't limited to naval units only?...only ever used certain spotting types with certain units,...

Correct. There is no "sonar" type, however the spot types in the 500s number range are the only ones that can spot units of stealth as high as that assigned to subs. The notable oddity this creates is that ASW helos are excellent for finding spies and special forces. It's an abstraction but it works rather well for most cases.

[domcoppinger]

So no spotting type has a particular unit type it can spot, sonar for example isn't limited to naval units only?...only ever used certain spotting types with certain units,...

Correct. There is no "sonar" type, however the spot types in the 500s number range are the only ones that can spot units of stealth as high as that assigned to subs. The notable oddity this creates is that ASW helos are excellent for finding spies and special forces. It's an abstraction but it works rather well for most cases.

Well thanks for the clarification! Although I must say that it is a bit of a shame that spot types and stealth levels (over 255) aren't easier to mod. Its just I have always thought that in this game the stealth and spotting ranges don't increase enough through the generations of fighters, If you look at the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II for example, its systems are so much more advanced than the previous generation F-22's that it is able to detect and jam an F-22's radar before the F-22 has even detected the F-35. Yet this hasn't been properly modelled in the game. Certainly if an F-35 were to go up against 2 F-22's it would be an interesting situation in game, rather than the cake walk that it would be in real life. And this is not even considering the power of ground based AA. Especially in non dedicated AA units. I mean how much damage should standard ground based forces be able to do to an F-22?

During the entire invasion and occupation of Iraq, only one fighter plane, an A-10, was shot down by hostile fire. Although a surprisingly large number of planes have been lost to pilot error.

But if I were to create similar situations in game I would most likely lose more than one fighter.

Disclaimer: This is not a nag or a request, just an observation and a dream of being able to mod the slated areas. I do not expect the extremely busy BG team to work on this any time this century! It is meant more to highlight something and maybe create some debate around it than it is to spur you on to fix my own personal grievances! Keep up the good work!

[Ruges]

There are two files that work with spoting. First off you have the .Spoting file in the INI folder. This file you can change the strength and range of a spoting type. You can even create new ones and give them a new ID range and strength.
http://www.supremewiki.com/index.php/Spotting_Types
Tells you how you can do this. There is more info on spoting here http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... ing#p80634 page 3 I created a nice chart (although the values are probly outdated). But the basic gist of it is in the spoting file the first value is the ID number, the secound value is the range and the third value is the strength.

The secound file is the .UNITS file. Each unit can be asigned up to two spoting types. Generaly units just have the first value, although several also have a secound value. http://www.supremewiki.com/index.php/Ru ... ding_Units This will teach you about the units file. specificaly pay attention to the headers column and look for the two spoting columns.

In your example of wanting to change your favorite awacs there is two ways you can change its spoting strength. The first way is to go into the units file and find the awacs you like and find out what ID it is using for spoting. Then goto the spoting file and adjust the range and strength how you see fit. The down side with doing it this way is every unit that uses this spoting ID will also recieve the changes you make.

So if you only want that one unit to have its strength increased it will be better to go into the spoting file and create a new line with a unused ID and set the range and strength how you want it. Then go into the units file and change the ID of its spot type to the one you created.

Dont forget these changes require a cache rebuild.

[domcoppinger]

Whatever are you doing Ruges?!?!?!?

Surely you don't have time to help lowly modders like me! What with all the time you are putting into releasing your Cold War mod!


And thanks for that, I have gone through and sorted the various spotting types within my modified .units file (and also stealth ratings so it could take me a while to fine tune these changes, as I think that I may have been a little liberal with my setting of the stealth, my initial changes had a U-3 with a stealth rating of a top end submarine )

However I have yet to dive into the .spoting file, mainly because I have spent so long modding various files that I have yet to either test or even enjoy the fruits of my labour!

So as soon as I have had some time to tweak and enjoy my current changes I shall hastily get on to making new ones. At which point your advice will be most helpful!

[flashy]

Well thanks for the clarification! Although I must say that it is a bit of a shame that spot types and stealth levels (over 255) aren't easier to mod. Its just I have always thought that in this game the stealth and spotting ranges don't increase enough through the generations of fighters, If you look at the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II for example, its systems are so much more advanced than the previous generation F-22's that it is able to detect and jam an F-22's radar before the F-22 has even detected the F-35. Yet this hasn't been properly modelled in the game. Certainly if an F-35 were to go up against 2 F-22's it would be an interesting situation in game, rather than the cake walk that it would be in real life. And this is not even considering the power of ground based AA. Especially in non dedicated AA units. I mean how much damage should standard ground based forces be able to do to an F-22?

'generation' has strict connotations in fighter parlance, both are fifth-generation regardless of whether they have different SRCW tech levels or prerequisites. i still give a F-22 an advantage 1v1 against a F-35, the F-22 can go as fast in supercruise as the F-35 can punching burner. assuming the F-22's O2 system doesn't crap out, of course

[domcoppinger]

'generation' has strict connotations in fighter parlance, both are fifth-generation regardless of whether they have different SRCW tech levels or prerequisites. i still give a F-22 an advantage 1v1 against a F-35, the F-22 can go as fast in supercruise as the F-35 can punching burner. assuming the F-22's O2 system doesn't crap out, of course

Firstly let me apologise, you are entirely correct about my use, or misuses rather, of the term generation. However my incorrect terminology aside how is it that the F-22 would match up against the F-35? Speed is all well and good and, as you correctly stated, the F-35 is indeed slower than the F-22. However it has a far superior stealth design, any external weapon mounts have a far smaller impact on fighter stealth and manoeuvrability. On top of this the superior radar and jamming means that unless you somehow close the F-22 into visible range you are toast before you even realise where the threat is coming from!