Rise CB and provocation?

[xer1]

I have tried to raise the CB and provocation level of a nation . We can call it country Alpha .
Both I and Alpha have a democratic system. Alpha is a 3rd world country . I have played both Sweden and the Nederlands .
To rise those level i have tried.
1. Spy.. sabotage , assassinations etc. Nobody ever get caught but missions can fail or succeeded .
2.have a massive 10-20 times Alphas army in 1-3 hex of the border.
3. tried to sign a line of sight treaty with alpha but that doesn't help to caught my spies to rise CB/provocation level..
I kept this on for 1-2 years for 3 different countries. Used always 45-50/100 spies.

What are I doing wrong ?

[Zuikaku]

I have tried to raise the CB and provocation level of a nation . We can call it country Alpha .
Both I and Alpha have a democratic system. Alpha is a 3rd world country . I have played both Sweden and the Nederlands .
To rise those level i have tried.
1. Spy.. sabotage , assassinations etc. Nobody ever get caught but missions can fail or succeeded .
2.have a massive 10-20 times Alphas army in 1-3 hex of the border.
3. tried to sign a line of sight treaty with alpha but that doesn't help to caught my spies to rise CB/provocation level..
I kept this on for 1-2 years for 3 different countries. Used always 45-50/100 spies.

What are I doing wrong ?

Nothing.
Some things just do not work right (like troops on the borders)....
I witnessed CB increased against me when:
-my spies got caught
- I broke the treaty with that country
- when it was scripted

[Balthagor]

It is intentionally difficult to increase CB and provocation. That is also historically accurate in most cases.

[barkhauer]

There were essentially 2 noteworthy "false flag"/CB incidents during this period, the Marco Polo Bridge incident in China (staged by Japanese Manchukuo Army forces to give them an excuse to try and grab all of China) and the Polish border incidents in the week leading up to the invasion by Germany. Nobody was particularly convinced by either of these incidents, either, I should say.

My problem is that wanton aggression isn't punished severely enough. I can conquer half of Europe as Italy for no reason other than I'm a bastard, and nobody bothers to form alliances, let alone retaliate.

Being at war with one of the Allies/Axis should essentially be as good as being at war with all of them. The only notable exception during the time period was the USSR/Japan non-aggression pact, and that would could be handled via event if necessary.

[Zuikaku]

There were essentially 2 noteworthy "false flag"/CB incidents during this period, the Marco Polo Bridge incident in China (staged by Japanese Manchukuo Army forces to give them an excuse to try and grab all of China) and the Polish border incidents in the week leading up to the invasion by Germany. Nobody was particularly convinced by either of these incidents, either, I should say.

My problem is that wanton aggression isn't punished severely enough. I can conquer half of Europe as Italy for no reason other than I'm a bastard, and nobody bothers to form alliances, let alone retaliate.

Being at war with one of the Allies/Axis should essentially be as good as being at war with all of them. The only notable exception during the time period was the USSR/Japan non-aggression pact, and that would could be handled via event if necessary.

So, we basically need:

- false flag spy actions
- more active diplomatic AI responses

[barkhauer]

There were essentially 2 noteworthy "false flag"/CB incidents during this period, the Marco Polo Bridge incident in China (staged by Japanese Manchukuo Army forces to give them an excuse to try and grab all of China) and the Polish border incidents in the week leading up to the invasion by Germany. Nobody was particularly convinced by either of these incidents, either, I should say.

My problem is that wanton aggression isn't punished severely enough. I can conquer half of Europe as Italy for no reason other than I'm a bastard, and nobody bothers to form alliances, let alone retaliate.

Being at war with one of the Allies/Axis should essentially be as good as being at war with all of them. The only notable exception during the time period was the USSR/Japan non-aggression pact, and that would could be handled via event if necessary.

So, we basically need:

- false flag spy actions
- more active diplomatic AI responses

Well, not quite. My whole point was that the only notable examples we have of false flag ops were utter failures.

As for the second, the main problem is that the AIs seem to be completely incapable of coordinated action. I expect France and the UK, for example, to not consider going to war separately, but to negotiate with each other a "treaty" resulting in a join declaration of war against a 3rd party. It would make diplomacy, particularly coalition diplomacy, actually possible in Supreme Ruler.

[number47]

My whole point was that the only notable examples we have of false flag ops were utter failures.

In case my point isn't obvious, do you thing that successful false flag attacks would be know to general public? Isn't the point of false flag attacks the absence of general knowledge they were false flag attack?


*(in other words, any successful false flag attack situation in history would be unknown to general public so debate in this manner is futile)

[Zuikaku]

Well, not quite. My whole point was that the only notable examples we have of false flag ops were utter failures.

OK, I'll refrain myself from starting provocative political debate here

[barkhauer]

My whole point was that the only notable examples we have of false flag ops were utter failures.

In case my point isn't obvious, do you thing that successful false flag attacks would be know to general public? Isn't the point of false flag attacks the absence of general knowledge they were false flag attack?


*(in other words, any successful false flag attack situation in history would be unknown to general public so debate in this manner is futile)

Not at all. Lots of things that worked/were kept secret AT THE TIME came out post-war. Losers made deals to save themselves and gave up info, winners eventually declassified, etc. The biggest problem with false flags is that humans are incredibly lousy at keeping secrets for any meaningful length of time.

[GenPatton43]

I have tried to raise the CB and provocation level of a nation . We can call it country Alpha .
Both I and Alpha have a democratic system. Alpha is a 3rd world country . I have played both Sweden and the Nederlands .
To rise those level i have tried.
1. Spy.. sabotage , assassinations etc. Nobody ever get caught but missions can fail or succeeded .
2.have a massive 10-20 times Alphas army in 1-3 hex of the border.
3. tried to sign a line of sight treaty with alpha but that doesn't help to caught my spies to rise CB/provocation level..
I kept this on for 1-2 years for 3 different countries. Used always 45-50/100 spies.

What are I doing wrong ?

If you really want to raise your CB, then save your gave, transfer it to the multiplayer folder and then go in under MP as that nation and have them launch sabotage ops on you.

I think the bigger issue I have with is when it comes to some historical events like the 1956 Hungarian Uprising. In the game, its just "Demonstrations are taking place in Hungary" and that's it. What should happen is that some kind of script needs to be triggered that forces Hungary to withdraw from the Warsaw Pact and break ties with its former allies. CB for the USSR and WP goes up, but not all the way up, like 75% so that if the USSR decides to invade, it still takes some heat for doing so.

Personally, I don't think that you really need "false flag" attacks. Just use the map. Have geographic points that when another nations units come close to something you own and the longer they remain in that area, CB rises. Case in point. The Gulf of Sidra. International waters but Khaddafi tried to make it his own private lake. Hell, I can put an entire Soviet Tank Army on the border with West Germany early on before Korea breaks out, and its like "Ho hum, just a few hundred tanks, no big deal"