Playing as USSR

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Anthropoid
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Playing as USSR

Post by Anthropoid »

Until the possible "Blue Always Win" bug gets pinned down and/or fixed for sure, I'm holding off on playing as U.S. and minor powers. If I play USSR, and act friendly enough, on Normal diplo I know I can even grow my red sphere, even if there is some sort of 'bug' causing blue sphere to grow disproportionately.

I've started and restarted as USSR a few times now and find their strengths and weaknesses very intriguing and would really like to play all the way to 'end game.' I feel like I now have a sufficient handle on their OOB, economic and industrial situation, techs and diplomacy to play and have developed some general strategic principles (which I'll list below).

Last night I started up a new game with the settings that I've come to realize are most suited for my interests: Hard Milit; Normal econ and diplo; High random events; enhanced spotting and range off; Sphere victory (this seems to me to be the most realistic in that, it should hypothetically be feasible to 'win' without ever actually declaring war on anyone and simply growing your sphere through 'philanthropy' and diplomacy; pretty much everything else default.

My question to anyone who has also played as USSR is:

What do you do with all those UNITS!?

My God what a tangle of crappy obsolete aircraft, and units the Soviets have strewn across Eastern Europe . . . In previous games, I simply did the rubber-band select on _everything_ and told it to go to Reserve. This was before I realized that there are Russia hexes INSIDE Ukraine, Lithuania, etc. and later wound up moving nearly all those units back inside or Russia to garrison hubs or go to reserve inside Russia.

So what do you guys do? Garrison on the border with the West? Garrison in a strong defensive line in your WP allies, else farther back inside your colonies? Send everything to reserve?

A few observations/strategic principles I've developed:

1. USSR starting OOB is strangely lacking in infantry, though I suppose with a close combat defense of 12 their SU-100 anti-tank is just as good for garrisoning in close combat hexes?

2. USSR has an overabundance of artillery, motorcycle recon, unmounted Engineers & old Lavochkin squadrons. In the past I have gifted these en masse to warm relations with N Viet, N Korea, Eritrea, etc., but to be honest I'm not sure that I was really helping them by soaking up their manpower with these seemingly antiquated units? I'm now tending toward just plain scrapping any interceptor that has less than 10 or 11 mid air strength, any arty with less than 15 or 20 attack, and the moto recons and engineers I'm not sure about.

3. Having played through a couple times now and tried different things, I'm not sure what real use keeping such a large and overall antiquated army on active duty serves me as USSR. I have yet to see any Blue aggression up through about 1952, and by then I can have produced a couple hundred Light Infantry which are apparently better than the standard leg infantry in every respect and quick to build. Mountain Infantry are substantially better at attack and defense though slow, and Combat Engineers are also much better but take considerably longer than the Light Infantry. But in any event, it seems that pretty quickly 'replacing' most of the existing Soviet Infantry, Engineers, Tanks and artillery is the smart way to go? I wouldn't imagine that those older designs would do much more than act as 'meat-shields' in actual combat.

4. USSR has paratroops, but aparently no air transport designs that are capable of carrying them. Should I split those para battalions or forge toward better transport aircraft designs? Related to this, I noticed the U.S. is not the least bit hesitant to trade any and all of its designs for the right price, which I was honestly a bit disappointed to see. U.S. should just NOT trade its designs to anyone that it doesn't have truly awesome relations with _and_ is in its sphere if not also allied. I will follow a house rule not to exploit that, but I did find it slightly immersion breaking.

5. The Yak-23 Flora versus the Mig-15 Fagot. Based on the in-game stats, the Flora is a better aircraft, though only a bit. In contrast, based on my wiki studying, it seems the Fagot was the main Soviet plane used in the Korean War and the Flora only had a few models built?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-23
the Yak-23 was quickly replaced in the Soviet service with the more complicated swept-wing MiG-15, which offered superior performance. In all, only 310 Yak-23 aircraft were built before production ended in 1950.
Just an error in the stats?

6. As far as economy/production the pattern I've tended to follow so far is:

a. turn off as much of all facilities as possible. Given the low level of supply throughout most of the country (even Moscow only has about 60% at start!) I think leaving all those facilities putting out a trickle of production is a waste of manpower and serves to do little other than drive up inflation and employment.

b. spread a high supply network from Moscow to the nearby regions to boost productivity

c. focus on social/medical/science techs

d. try to get coal and uranium production up a bit, build more petrol and coal power plants while upping petrol production to keep up, then as the supply network gets spread a bit, bring more consumer, military and industrial facilities back online.

7. Military: I have mainly built Light Infantry, which seem to be in most respects as good as Mt. Infantry except mobile, quick to build and rather cheap. Almost seems kind of overpowered for such a generic unit though. None of the Soviet bombers I've noticed so far seem to have the range to hit targets inside the continental U.S. so I'm at a bit of a loss for how to pose a credible nuclear threat.

Oh yeah, the IS-6 Shashmurin seems to be a pretty decent tank, but with all of that forest and villages in Eastern Europe I don't see those as being that useful in early game? Even in Turkey there is an lot of close combat hexes and I have yet to see a really potent soviet mobile infantry design as far as I've gone in the Tech tree, which is admittedly not far.
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Aragos »

Good observations. I usually play the US, so I tend to see this from the opposite side. The US has piles of fairly obsolecent units as well (how many ships can one country have!?!?), so I spend a while just scrapping/trading/giving units away.

Oddly, when I do go WWIII with the USSR, they usually have fairly advanced (MiG 21s, modern strategic bombers) by the time I fight them--normally around 1955-56 or so.
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Anthropoid »

Aragos wrote:Oddly, when I do go WWIII with the USSR, they usually have fairly advanced (MiG 21s, modern strategic bombers) by the time I fight them--normally around 1955-56 or so.
That is interesting. AI cheats!

I came up with a couple tentative answers of my own. Be curious to see if others concur.
Anthropoid wrote:What do you do with all those UNITS!?

I've reached the conclusion that, trying to cover MOST of the key strategic points in Eastern Europe/Crimea/Caucus states is the way to go. Moto recons actually have def of 8 and they are fast and cheap so they are sent to garrison at airfields or minor coastal hubs. The motorized AT units seem to be okay for garrisoning at more important close combat hubs. I've traded a good number of these and the unmounted Eng, but I'm also putting some of the leg Eng units in hexes where I'll eventually build supply depots and airbases. So basically: spread them out. The key to that for me is to do it gradually over the first year of play. Trying to move everything all at once is a headache.

3. . . .it seems that pretty quickly 'replacing' most of the existing Soviet Infantry, Engineers, Tanks and artillery is the smart way to go? . . .

4. USSR has paratroops, but aparently no air transport designs that are capable of carrying them . . .

7. . . . None of the Soviet bombers I've noticed so far seem to have the range to hit targets inside the continental U.S. . . .

[color=#0BF0000]Found the TU-95 strat bomber which has a range of 10,300km so that is in the research queue. There are a couple of decent transports, the best of which is the IL76-B Candid which is now in the queue as well.

Also decided to skip the IS-6 and go straight for the T-10M Heavy Tank. That along with the Light Infantry (which I now have 144 of in my build queues) will be my main mobile fighting force for the first couple years[/color]
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Balthagor »

Anthropoid wrote:That is interesting. AI cheats!
Sorry, what? No, the AI does not cheat. Upon what do you make this statement?
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Anthropoid »

Balthagor wrote:
Anthropoid wrote:That is interesting. AI cheats!
Sorry, what? No, the AI does not cheat. Upon what do you make this statement?
Doh . . . uh. Well, the AI in most games cheats :D

I guess I speak out of turn. In honesty I haven't played up to 1955 or 1956 so it could be I could have an even more modern military than what Aragos was explaining for his USSR AI opponent. But it sounded like your standard AI cheat = extras in tech, production, etc.

I saw where you said that the Very Hard Milit difficulty just make the AI act smarter but no quantitative handicaps on human. So that really is serious eh?

Brilliant.
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Balthagor »

Yes. We're big on not having the AI cheat.
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Fistalis »

Balthagor wrote:Yes. We're big on not having the AI cheat.
High diplo difficulty alters the game rules slightly in favor of the AI.. not a really a cheat but its as close as the game gets to cheating for the AI. (annoying part is the AI wont do any fun stuff like break treaties unless its turned up.. it should do that on normal since thats the "fair" setting. 8O )
Last edited by Fistalis on Jan 22 2013, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Anthropoid »

Balthagor wrote:Yes. We're big on not having the AI cheat.
That right there really sets you guys apart from every other strategy game ever made (except those where the AI is scripted)!

So what do you recommend for a USSR strategy Balth?
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Anthropoid »

I have developed a few questions about SCRC engine and I figured this thread might be as good a spot as any to pose them.

1. Is there any way to tell for certain if a hex has _both_ a railroad and a road built in it already?

There are significant portions of Central Asian Russia that do not seem to have major waypoints connected by road, only by railroad. For example: Cheylabinks to Kurgan to Omsk to Novosobirsk (the 3rd or 4th largest city in Russia) only seem to be connected via railroad.

Now that I've got my economy solid, I'm contemplating building a road over top of the railroad to make traffic between them quicker, but don't want to get 'charged' twice (not sure if the engine would do that anyway?)

2. Is there any additional supply benefit from having both a road and a railroad traversing the same tangent across a hex? What about traversing different tangents?

3. I know you can turn off a particular type of message (e.g., messages about a new unit being completed).

a. I'm guessing that the way you turn a type of message back on is to "Reset Options?"

b. Is there some way to just clear out your message inbox, but not set a particular type to not display again? For example, I get 29 messages all at once that T-10M tanks have finished building. I really don't need to click 87 times (twice to open each message and once to delete each message) to clear out all of these but still get that type of message in future do I?

4. Can anyone explain to me how to load individual nuclear bombs into my Tu-95 bombers? The only thing I seem to be able to do is auto-deploy them, which fills up as many as I have bombs for up to about half full. The directions on SupremeWiki do not seem to work.

5. Why is it that sometimes when I select a unit and Ctrl + right-click to assign orders on a distant hex, it gives me the option to Entrench and other times it doesn't? I'm guessing that if the hex is a transit hex (coastal, or river) that the engine is giving me 'embarkation' orders instead of entrench?

6. Does putting non-missile platform land units into "Strategic Pool" do anything? Like in some games the "Strategic Pool" represents units that are being transported by railroad. Can you put a Light Infantry in say Novosobirsk into some 'strategic mode' so that it can be transported by railroad and go to say Moscow more quickly and cheaply than if it traversed it by wheel?
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by bvb »

1: not that I know of. It does seem roads are always "on top". There are some tile configurations where you can see the edge of the rails, and they're always below, so presumably if there are both, you'll see the road. Doesn't help if knowing if both are there, but at least can tell if it's just rail.

2: Don't believe so. Believe both have the same supply benefit, road gives the additional movement bonus.

3: Reset as far as I know.

b: No clear the box. I'd like one too, unit completion & large scale diplo trade means either a lot of clicking or risking missing important messages.

4: will edit this if no one else answers. Can't fire the game up ATM and memory too fuzzy on the exact step by step. :)
Last edited by bvb on Jan 26 2013, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Anthropoid »

Thank you bvb!

ADDIT: Weird. Now I can manually deploy nuclear bombs to my Tu-95s just like is says in the SupremeWiki.
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Aragos »

to load indivdual missiles, use the "missile" button on the unit screens. it will show you what units have, what you have in reserve, etc.

IIRC, someone posted a great explination of how to do this, with pics, last year. Just do a search of the forums.
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Re: Playing as USSR

Post by Anthropoid »

Aragos wrote:to load indivdual missiles, use the "missile" button on the unit screens. it will show you what units have, what you have in reserve, etc.

IIRC, someone posted a great explination of how to do this, with pics, last year. Just do a search of the forums.
Yeah, there is something just a bit funky about this. Occasionally, I cannot load them. I think you have to go into missile reverses, and click on the type you want to load, and then select the platform. That is what the wiki said and that seems to work most of the time. If you select a platform, sometimes the "Available Missiles" window is empty (seemingly if you have not first selected a missile type).
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Proxy Wars??

Post by Anthropoid »

Proxy Wars. The word proxy does not appear in the manual

SupremeWiki gives me this:
•Mutual defence treaty - Creates an agreement between the two nations that if one is attacked then the other will come to its defence. Does not actually force the player into war, just provides Casus Beli against the invader and causes a loss in relations if this treaty is ignored. Works well to dissuade nations from declaring war on the signatories. **This is the treaty that allows Proxy wars.. with a mutual defense and the proper Transit treaties Proxy war is possible. The treaty works in both aggressive and defensive wars**
http://www.supremewiki.com/node/79

Okay, so what does that mean? Does it mean that if I have a mutual defense pact with Azerbajan (my colony) while they are at peace that I can get them to declare war on Iran? Or does it mean that I can get into the Vietnam War on NV side without actually warring against France, etc.??

Can someone point me to a "how to" on these Proxy Wars?

Is there an actual way to get one of my proxies to declare war?
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Re: Proxy Wars??

Post by number47 »

Anthropoid wrote:Proxy Wars. The word proxy does not appear in the manual

SupremeWiki gives me this:
•Mutual defence treaty - Creates an agreement between the two nations that if one is attacked then the other will come to its defence. Does not actually force the player into war, just provides Casus Beli against the invader and causes a loss in relations if this treaty is ignored. Works well to dissuade nations from declaring war on the signatories. **This is the treaty that allows Proxy wars.. with a mutual defense and the proper Transit treaties Proxy war is possible. The treaty works in both aggressive and defensive wars**
http://www.supremewiki.com/node/79

Okay, so what does that mean? Does it mean that if I have a mutual defense pact with Azerbajan (my colony) while they are at peace that I can get them to declare war on Iran? Or does it mean that I can get into the Vietnam War on NV side without actually warring against France, etc.??

Can someone point me to a "how to" on these Proxy Wars?

Is there an actual way to get one of my proxies to declare war?
Proxy warfare is the following:
country A that has alliance or mutual defence+full transit treaty with you, and is in war with country B. You can fight against country B without declaring war on them. But you must do so from country's A territory as you are not officialy in war with country B.
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