Facilities expenses

[mattpilot]

WAIT......


Do the number of units you have in reserve affect your facility cost? My facility cost keeps on climbing and i've deactivated and/or scrapped quite a bit. I definitely didn't build anything. BUt i am building units!

You know.. kinda like paying storage fees ?

[mattpilot]

WHAT are these facility costs??

Only Military buildings have annual cost as far as i can tell from the GUI and WIKI.


I disabled ALL military structures and research facilities - scrapped all military complexes. Anything that had an annual cost according to the GUI.

My Facility cost went from 1140 mill/day to 900mill/day ... thats still over half my budget. What is causing these costs?

[Balthagor]

I have some notes to myself to investigate this but have been too busy with other development areas. My concern is that the GUI may be reporting the values improperly but I have been unable to confirm this. I'm confident that SR2020 was reporting these values properly.

You could take a savegame, check you expenses, scrap all of one type, run 3 days, compare expenses.

Reload, try another facility type.

That's the test I intend to run but that's manpower hours I don't have ATM.

You could also try loading a scenario with/without units to test your comment above.

[mattpilot]

Well this i what i 'found out', without having used any scientific standards

- Selling units/missiles had no effect

- When i disabled all military buildings, the airplanes all took off and flew until they ran out of fuel and crashed .... -> no effect on facility cost from losing units
(btw, different bug here -> if you sell units to a region that has no barracks (shattered world), then the unit stays in your barracks)

- I then started disabling production buildings, with mixed results. 100% sure these have a daily cost, just not sure how exactly. For example, disabling a hex with 6 oil rigs in one case only took off 10mill/day, in another case it took off 30mill/day. Both hexes had different output due to supply levels. Perhaps a sideeffect of producing resources is facility cost?

In another case i disabled a hex with 6 farms, drop was only 1mill/day


I didn't disable ALL the facilities, but nearly all of them to where i could 'eyeball' it that i would still be stuck with around 300-400mill/day facility cost if i removed EVERYTHING. This leads me to the assumption that city' tiles also have some sort of facility cost?

[Balthagor]

Good testing. Roads/Rails may also factor in here. Might want to try loading as some island nations and looking at annual figures to magnify the effect.
17089

[Fistalis]

Good testing. Roads/Rails may also factor in here. Might want to try loading as some island nations and looking at annual figures to magnify the effect.
17089

I pointed out facility costs had gone haywire after update 3...

[mattpilot]

I pointed out facility costs had gone haywire after update 3...

excuse me...... but isn't that a game breaking bug?

I mean... if it weren't for the 1 mill barrels of oil i produce extra a day and sell it during diplomatic trades at 2-3x the value, i would be hopelessly bankrupt.

[Fistalis]

I pointed out facility costs had gone haywire after update 3...

excuse me...... but isn't that a game breaking bug?

I mean... if it weren't for the 1 mill barrels of oil i produce extra a day and sell it during diplomatic trades at 2-3x the value, i would be hopelessly bankrupt.

Not really I assumed when nothing was done it was to reduce the amount of Facility spam. You see some people building 100s of facilities so its not outside of the realm of possibility it was done to reduce this type of play. Games still playable.. you just have to be more selective about what facilities you build. I've seen save games where people as like india have half of all their land covered in facilities.. higher maintainence is a logical response to this type of play.

[mattpilot]

hmm.. yea good point. Perhaps i do have to many facilities for what my population can handle (assuming the tax dollars should cover the added expenses of more facilities).

How does the AI deal with this? They dont build facilities (or wait, do they? they just dont start new complexes?), but do they demolish them if they can't afford them?

[Fistalis]

hmm.. yea good point. Perhaps i do have to many facilities for what my population can handle (assuming the tax dollars should cover the added expenses of more facilities).

How does the AI deal with this? They dont build facilities (or wait, do they? they just dont start new complexes?), but do they demolish them if they can't afford them?

No they don't which is one of the reasons they are extremely conservative about building new facilities

Edit: Its worth noting that the changes in Update 3 irrc had the facility costs growing with GDP so the higher your GDP the more the maint. Costs are. The forumula was made for the base game which made it extremely hard to get remotely balanced for teh modern world since the average GDP/percapity is about 10x that of the starting CW.

The net effect is a high GDP nation should shoot for importing/self suffeniency. Where as a low GDP economy can make money on exports a bit easier.

[mattpilot]

hmm... well i just fiddled some more, and i can't agree that this is WAD. I'm not able to create a sustained economy without selling oil in diplomatic trades at very high markups.

I've closed all facilities for the industries where i can't produce at below market cost (thus i'd import), but if i can't import due to no availability, i open some facilities to cover the shortfalls. But this is extreme micromanagement and it STILL leaves me with very high facility costs ( 900mill instead of 1100). In addition to that, my production costs of goods is higher than what i can sell them for to my citizens. Thats about 100-200 deficit right there.





I did notice though that the maintenance costs rise continuously in conjunction with GDP/c rise.

AND i am playing your modern world mod. You say you adjusted something? I'm in a shattered world scenario that starts in 2020 with as you know a relatively high GDP/c. Perhaps this is whats screwing me up?

Is there some easy way of uninstalling the mod if no backup made? Though i dont want to give up your UI changes

[Fistalis]

hmm... well i just fiddled some more, and i can't agree that this is WAD. I'm not able to create a sustained economy without selling oil in diplomatic trades at very high markups.

I've closed all facilities for the industries where i can't produce at below market cost (thus i'd import), but if i can't import due to no availability, i open some facilities to cover the shortfalls. But this is extreme micromanagement and it STILL leaves me with very high facility costs ( 900mill instead of 1100). In addition to that, my production costs of goods is higher than what i can sell them for to my citizens. Thats about 100-200 deficit right there.





I did notice though that the maintenance costs rise continuously in conjunction with GDP/c rise.

AND i am playing your modern world mod. You say you adjusted something? I'm in a shattered world scenario that starts in 2020 with as you know a relatively high GDP/c. Perhaps this is whats screwing me up?

Is there some easy way of uninstalling the mod if no backup made? Though i dont want to give up your UI changes

Modern world mod won't effect teh economy of the 2020/shattered world. Those are just plain broken until I fix them. What you're seeing is the way the modern world economy WOULD look if I hadn't adjusted it.
Each scenario has its own Economy setup. One doesn't effect the other.

The only changes in the modern world mod that carry over to other scenarios is the GUI.

Edit: Actually I thought this was fixed.. are you using the newest version of the SR2020 Scenario pack?

[mattpilot]

hm... interesting.

I copied the file as explained in that thread, ran the game, and expected a jesus walking on water moment - but unfortunately no change. Facility cost is the same, along with all other aspects of my economy.

Do i have to restart the game? (as in.. start a new scenario, not reboot the game);


Also checking wiki for WMDATA info - i see no correlation to facility maintenance cost.

"The forumula was made for the base game which made it extremely hard to get remotely balanced for teh modern world since the average GDP/percapity is about 10x that of the starting CW. "

Where' is this formula?



*EDIT:

Edit: Actually I thought this was fixed.. are you using the newest version of the SR2020 Scenario pack?

date on file is 1/16/2013 , so i'm assuming yes

[number47]

date on file is 1/16/2013 , so i'm assuming yes

Actually, that date would suggest that you are not playing the latest version since the update 3.7 was released in September, therfore his adjustments should have later date...

EDIT: I checked his files, and yes, you have the latest version from his site. Now the question is, is it possible Fistalis didn't update his files after update 3.7?

[Fistalis]

Which file?
Last updated Shattered world.scenario file should be.. 2/23/13
(havent updated cache for 7.3.7 but that one should have fixed the economy)
Note If you do get the latest version you won't see any change til you start a new game.'

Edit: hes referring to the WMdatafile. That dates correct for the last one but what date is the cache file for SW.

Either way the GC/SW economy hasn't had much work done to it.. so its not outside of the realm of possibility that the economy in it is still screwed. Theres a mass of changes that BG did to the economy and I never wanted to put enough time into the GC/SW mods to fix them since they were originally just supposed to be pure conversions. I'm still making adjustments to the modern worlds economy almost a year later and the SW/GC economies would need as much tweaking.