Update 3 Beta 3

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openair
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by openair »

forumname wrote:So, each citizen at startup is (infants included) is producing a ton per year of lumber, water, and agri..not to mention working full time at a plant, mine, or factory somewhere, IF they aren't in the military, with absolutely no machinery.

Roger that. Silly me for not realizing.
What are you on about? No one said that.

Food, water and lumber have have basic production amounts, even with no facilities. Probably based on population and land area. Because that is realistic. Food, water, and lumber were harvested for thousands of years with no facilities. The USSR does start with some facilites listed for every other resource. Including 42 large petrol plants. There are no ghost (petrols pants) facilities you cannot scrap.

Also no facilities and no machinery are two very different things.
forumname
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by forumname »

openair wrote:
forumname wrote:So, each citizen at startup is (infants included) is producing a ton per year of lumber, water, and agri..not to mention working full time at a plant, mine, or factory somewhere, IF they aren't in the military, with absolutely no machinery.

Roger that. Silly me for not realizing.
What are you on about? No one said that.

Food, water and lumber have have basic production amounts, even with no facilities. Probably based on population and land area. Because that is realistic. Food, water, and lumber were harvested for thousands of years with no facilities. The USSR does start with some facilites listed for every other resource. Including 42 large petrol plants. There are no ghost (petrols pants) facilities you cannot scrap.

Also no facilities and no machinery are two very different things.
Can you not add? The math says that.

My first intuition was the we were being "given" some production facilities at the start (perhaps based on settings), but they weren't "listed" to ease resource use on/by those facilities (because its startup)...or something along those lines..

My first intuition was NOT that every man, woman, and child, was "superman", or that in 1952 Russia had absolutely no timber mills, water plants, or agri plants.

Realistic? Humans have not finished lumber without mills since the 1800's. To state that 105 million Russians are producing the same amount of finished lumber by hand in 1952, as the USSR actually produced in 1970 with facilities, and still have time to run agri, water, factories, mines and the military is simply laughable, which is why it was not intuitive to me to start with.

If you wish to discuss this further, send me a PM, and lets leave this thread for other update issues.
TheCyab6a
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by TheCyab6a »

the island i live on is about 2/4 the size of britian and 50 years ago there was about 200,000 ppl living here and there was no lumber mills here and nobody imported he wood they needed because everyone had a small saw pit in there back yard and mady what they needed and those are a tad bit to small to be represented as a lumber mill im thinking thats probly where the production comes from without having the mills
PyongYang
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by PyongYang »

Balthagor wrote:No, it won't go backwards. Just set windowed mode but use your maximum screen resolution. It will "look" full screen but the engine will handle it differently.
I've started two games so far using windowed full screen. Although the flickering buttons and jagged lines have gone, after a while the mouse pointer seems to get 'trapped' at the foot of the screen (over the taskbar area) and mouse movement just drags the screen around!

Any eta on the next beta/update?
goulash
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by goulash »

Are we looking at a 2012 update or 2013? I thought it was suggested that it may be late December for update 3 but I could have misread this from somewhere.
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by Fistalis »

goulash wrote:Are we looking at a 2012 update or 2013? I thought it was suggested that it may be late December for update 3 but I could have misread this from somewhere.
My guess is that beta 3 has most of the things they want done to it and are likely going to iron out any major issues with it and push it out. Whether that happens this month or next is questionable though.
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Zuikaku
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by Zuikaku »

Again, in mid '70s I'm unable to obtain any tanks, APCs, AA rockets, missiles, helicopters, ships or submarines as Iraq with current unit trading system.... :-(
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
Aragos
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by Aragos »

Z--try putting your diplo focus on different regions (e.g., the US or USSR if you want their gear). It helps. Also, if there is not a lot of fighting going on, a lot of stuff gets sold off.
Hundane
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by Hundane »

Also, if there is not a lot of fighting going on
Z - Thats one of the keys.

The rules of unit trading is the seller is not at war or preparing for war..... If you see a regions alert level increasing, its going into war prep mode and will not sell units. Playing High Volitility games will increase the amount of regions not able to sell.

From what I have seen, the unit trading rules havent changed and they are :

* AI Region must have reasonable army in reserve (over 50 units)
* AI Region must not be at war or in pre-war buildup
* Quantity to trade 5-15 land, 1-5 air/sea, 10-35 for missiles
* who to trade with determined by region buying code and relations
** armsavail code, alliances and high dip relations increase frequency, decrease value requested
* Units are chosen based on:
** older designs
** obsolete date passed
** less pretechs
** lower cost
** (no trade of nbc weapons)
* will offer up to X units even if different types/classes
** only one type of missile is offered per offer

Unit trades from AI regions are subject to the same rules already in place for unit trading. The units can only be traded from reserves. Units transferred are subject to the effect of Military Difficulty levels.
SGTscuba
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by SGTscuba »

Is artillery supposed to be able to fire indirectly during a proxy war because my artillery still refuses to.
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Balthagor
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by Balthagor »

SGTscuba wrote:Is artillery supposed to be able to fire indirectly during a proxy war because my artillery still refuses to.
I think artillery will fire on a proxy enemy but not on an enemy's proxies. (if you get that).

A allied to B at war with C can fire on C but not on C's allies.

My notes on this are vague, I'd have to do some testing to see where it's actually at.
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SGTscuba
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by SGTscuba »

Balthagor wrote:
SGTscuba wrote:Is artillery supposed to be able to fire indirectly during a proxy war because my artillery still refuses to.
I think artillery will fire on a proxy enemy but not on an enemy's proxies. (if you get that).

A allied to B at war with C can fire on C but not on C's allies.

My notes on this are vague, I'd have to do some testing to see where it's actually at.
Yeah during the Korean war, my arty didn't fire at a single North Korean unit. Same for the war in Entriea vs Ethiopia. And I was only facing the enemies of my ally's units. (they enemy had no allies)
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Zuikaku
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by Zuikaku »

Aragos wrote:Z--try putting your diplo focus on different regions (e.g., the US or USSR if you want their gear). It helps. Also, if there is not a lot of fighting going on, a lot of stuff gets sold off.
I did all that. Have excellent relations with soviets and they offer me things very often. I have obtained MiG-21s in huge quantities in early '60s. They are offering even modern bombers and recce planes to me. That is not the problem. Problem are - tanks. they offered me no tanks at all - never. All they are willing to sell me are SU-100 TDs. No T-34s, IS-3s, T-55s or T-62s. No helicopters - transport or attack. No offers for any ships or subs (Argentina sold me aircraft carrier, but I woul'd rather like submarines in my fleet). There are no offers for SAM batteries either. So it would be nice to have some way to tell my allies what do I want/need...
Maybe endless wars are draining units from the market?
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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Balthagor
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by Balthagor »

Have you tried modding the market availability of tanks?
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Zuikaku
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Re: Update 3 Beta 3

Post by Zuikaku »

Balthagor wrote:Have you tried modding the market availability of tanks?
No I didn't. Will that affect the game in progress ,or do I need to start the new game?
What does it mean if G column is left empty?
T-55 has a value of 6 and T-62 of 7. This are rather big numbers, but they were never offered to me anyway....
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!
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