BGForums

Just curious.. but why was this implemented.. Why would neutral sphere Never declare on neutral sphere outside of scripted events. Really limits the Scope of any mods to Red vs Blue.

What makes it more confusing is given enough CB.. and no non aggression.. Warsaw will declare on warsaw.. or NATO on NATO.. but never neutral on neutral regardless of the amount of CB.

Neutral will declare on Warsaw... and probably NATO (although I don't remember seeing it) But another neutral nation.. which would make far more sense to attack since they don't have a huge alliance backing them, the AI just won't declare on.

I'm sure there was a reason for this to be hardcoded.. I just for the life of me can't figure it out.. so please share.

Edit: This is the type of stuff I usually PM but.. since I've gotten alot of interest in my GC and Shattered world conversions I Figured I'd make this one public.(I've got alot of PMs to and from Balt and george of me complaining about issues in my modern world mod that exist in the campaign but are far less likely to occur so I figured being more transparent with core game issues might help me reduce the complaints I receive.)

_________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
my Supreme Ruler Cold war mods Site
Redistribution of my mods is prohibited. By downloading them you agree to not redistribute the file(s) without expressed permission.

It is not intended to be hard coded that way. I don't actually think it is. We'll review the situation.

_________________
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

Well far as i can tell... Neutral sphere won't makes alliances, or declare war etc with other neutral sphere nations.. its like they totally ignore each other.

_________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
my Supreme Ruler Cold war mods Site
Redistribution of my mods is prohibited. By downloading them you agree to not redistribute the file(s) without expressed permission.

In saying that, do neutral sphere nations declare war at all? I am struggling to think of a time that I saw a neutral sphere nation declare war without changing sphere. Even if this isn't the case it certainly suggests that they declare war far far less often. Whilst this is great for isolationist nations like Switzerland it is rather annoying with other nations, such as when a large number of nations defect from the major spheres and become neutral, or when someone tries to create a mod not based around the cold war.

_________________
Much Thanks

- [On the topic of timelines] "Time isn't made of lines, it is made of circles, that's why clocks are round!" - Unknown-

Number 46-48 = First to Sixth Type Savant

yes.. in testing various sphere settings for the shattered world sceanio.. Neutral did declare war on a Red sphere nation.. but they seem a lot more reluctant to declare war at all. No matter what relations/CB settings etc However I have yet to get a Neutral nation to declare on a neutral. They also won't sign alliances with another neutral. But you switch them over to a sphere and they start signing alliances etc like there is no tomorrow.

_________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
my Supreme Ruler Cold war mods Site
Redistribution of my mods is prohibited. By downloading them you agree to not redistribute the file(s) without expressed permission.

sort of makes sense in the blue vs. red structure. There isn't a 'white' alliance side, so the system isn't really coded to allow for a third (neutral) alliance structure.

Its an issue when you try to mod shattered world, etc. type alliance structures. The SRCW system, IMHO, is at its base a red vs. blue system. Doesn't seem to work well outside of a bipolar structure.

Small update on this.
I recently saw a neutral declare war on a neutral and after checking my settings (this was in one of my mods) I realized the declaring country had a slight leaning.
They still won't ally etc with each other.. or I haven't been able to get them to. Neutral nations still seem more hesitant to declare war on a fellow neutral

They refuse to declare war on someone with the exact same sphere leanings as them. So a 0.0 wont declare on a 0.0, but a 0.25 will declare war on a 0.0 etc. While both are technically neutral one has a leaning the other doesn't.

Update:Removed false hypothesis. The remaining one is correct. They will not declare war on someone with the EXACT same sphere leaning as them.. even if both are absolutely neutral. Further more Alliances are only signed if the 2 nations heavily lean toward the same sphere.

If I had to guess. I would say that it checks sphere leanings as part of the "should I declare war" process. And if it comes back as the same leaning it decides not to declare. Which is what you would want if you have say 2 Fully NATO or Warsaw Leaning nations. But this leads to a lack of aggression when you have 2 totally neutral or slightly leaning nations.

I'll keep poking at it.. its probably working as Intended as far as BG is concerned. I don't like it but it works for the campaign which is the #1 priority for them.

Update 2: I've now confirmed this. My question becomes.. how many numerals after the decimal are valid? I know 2.. such as 0.01 but can I get away with 3. Such as 0.001, 0.002 etc. Hopefully I'll get a response before I test it.. although chances are Balt doesn't know for sure.

This means scenarios like shattered world can be fixed.. albeit with a decent amount of work.

_________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
my Supreme Ruler Cold war mods Site
Redistribution of my mods is prohibited. By downloading them you agree to not redistribute the file(s) without expressed permission.

I have begun investigation this and have sent George a request for analyzing some of my test results. If we find anything worth mentioning we may do so. It may just appear as part of the changelog for the next update if we find and fix something related to this.

_________________
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

Thanks for poking at it.. my intention wasn't to bump the thread.. only update the thread with the new info I've found via testing. It requires a bit of work but giving each country an individual sphere leaning works to get them to declare war on each other. Such as 0.01 0.02 etc.(ive tried 3 numbers after the decimal but i'm not sure if its working or not) But they still won't sign alliances without a heavy sphere leaning.

Also since I have an idea.. but don't know for sure how civilian sphere rating effects sphere leaning over time.. it may or may not eventually lead to everyone having the same sphere leaning after awhile. (from what I can tell civilian sphere leaning slowly moves that nation toward the side of the civilian leaning. IE a 0.25 civilian leaning will slowly move a nation toward NATO. A 0.15 leaning will as well but at a slower pace. However I'm not sure if a 0 means no gradual slide.. or if it slowly moves it toward neutral.)

Good news for you is.. this discovery alone will keep me busy updating all my mods with more variation of sphere leanings. Even a .01 difference is better than exact same leanings if you want the potential for war.

_________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
my Supreme Ruler Cold war mods Site
Redistribution of my mods is prohibited. By downloading them you agree to not redistribute the file(s) without expressed permission.

Update:
Neutral won't Form alliances but will sign mutual defense with transit treaties in certain circumstances. Which is the same thing. This is all with minor variation in everyones sphere leanings to prevent the "were the exact same sphere no war" deal. Also.. jacked up volatility (about 2x higher than very high) helps both the treaties and war.

_________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
my Supreme Ruler Cold war mods Site
Redistribution of my mods is prohibited. By downloading them you agree to not redistribute the file(s) without expressed permission.

Some of this has been rebalanced for Update 3.

_________________
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

ahh, Update 3 info

_________________

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
- General George Patton Jr
In Brazilian IAAR as Pascoal Humberto de Souza Branco

I have played South Africa. over 20 countries annexed, CB is about 100% almost for every country. But no one wants to atack me! every one ignore me? first of all my neutral neighbours.
I have never see then neutral country atacks somebody. Neutral countries do nothing almost everythere.
May be AI turned off to improve game speed?
All world was sleeping....

_________________
Third World War will begins soon....

_________________
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com