Loyalty in conquered regions.

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david2tm
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Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by david2tm »

I have 2 questions.
1. Does loyalty changes somehow?
2. Conquered nations people, they participate in workforce/conscription?
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tkobo
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by tkobo »

david2tm wrote:I have 2 questions.
1. Does loyalty changes somehow?
Sadly no, we keep asking for this, but havent yet convinced the main dev.So if you want to see it sometime in the future , get out your wisdom stick and be prepared to use it :P

2. Conquered nations people, they participate in workforce/conscription?
Yes.And their is a production penalty applied to those facilties operating in occupied lands.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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Art_Vandelay
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Post by Art_Vandelay »

There should be an option to invest some money into newly conquered regions so it could reduce rebellion.
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

There is, its called law enforcement.Its one of the social programs you can throw cash at in the game.
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david2tm
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Post by david2tm »

may be they are right about this... see iraq, they do not change their loyalty :)
but i'm conserned more about conscription. i'm playing as small country, and know conquered mine much bigger neighbors. i want my army to grow :)
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drekx
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Post by drekx »

Actually loyalties do change it's just that it takes more than a few years. Not all the population from the current nations were all once part of that nation. Given enough time(more than a decade or two?) that a population's country has seized to exist they will eventually change their loyalties.
Rais.N.Hell
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Rais.N.Hell »

I am not really sure, but I think that investing heavily on "Cultural Subsidy" helps spread your starting nations culture to conquered nations. I am yet to see any fruits in this theory since I've only occupied the central American states for only about 1 year.
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Balthagor
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Balthagor »

You've missed the comment above that hex loyalty does not change in game.
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Pwned9080 »

Is this changed in update 4(beta)?
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Ruges
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Ruges »

Acualy I think it would be rather easy to change loyalty of a region. Genocide.
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Pwned9080 »

Ruges wrote:Acualy I think it would be rather easy to change loyalty of a region. Genocide.
Lol, but what about enslaving that population, isn't that the point of an invasion?
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tommygun
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by tommygun »

It would be really cool if loyalty could change over time, but it should take quite a few years. Because if I play with a small country and conquer a lot of other regions then it means that most of my production facilities are working far from maximum efficiency if I dont move everything else to the "core" lands, but I still pay the same maintenance costs
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ncbeach
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by ncbeach »

tkobo wrote:Sadly no, we keep asking for this, but havent yet convinced the main dev.So if you want to see it sometime in the future , get out your wisdom stick and be prepared to use it :P
*ncbeach pulls out wisdom stick*

loyalty should possibly change over time-

if the area is run better after conquest than before there stands a good chance that loyalty will change. a few nights ago on the hitler channel... :lol: i mean history channel.. there was a program on that asked a simple question.. did germans feel liberated or conquered after wwII... people felt one way or the other.. everyone had an opinion.

directly after the war if you were to poll the majority would have said conquered.. today the majority would see themselves as liberated... when did this change happen? how long did it take? these are excellent questions..

in modern times we can look to recent conflicts in georgia, afganistan, and iraq.. if you were to poll these populations with the same question how would they respond?

in georgia, the regions currently under russian control, the majority would probably say liberated..
in afganistan the majority would probably say liberated...
in iraq.. the majority would probably say conquered...

going back further you can ask this question of other conflicts.. the balkans, the falklands, vietnam... one thing is for sure... everyone will have an opinion.. very few would respond indifferent...

so should loyalty change over time in 2020?
my opinion is yes.. if the game is supposed to model the real world then you must include it.. but not always for the better.. regions should change loyalty for the positive and negative... depending on factors such as religious makeup, government type, and if a region is better off than before..

i can think of lots of reasons to include this feature... but i can also see drawbacks.. some players might want a simple game and an extra layer of complexity might turn them off.. but i think its safe to say the player base of 2020 likes complex games.. if we wanted to play something simple we would be playing the other 20 options out there for global domination.. in the end.. it would probably be best if this were an option to turn on or off at the beginning.. but saying its a bad idea all together is being out of touch with the player base.
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Ruges
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Ruges »

I think Loyalty depends allot more on conditions after the war. If the majority are jobless, in poverty, and in high crime with very little freedoms. They are going tobe disloyal. However If you made them have high paying jobs, no crime, and allot of freedoms, they are going tobe loyal to the new government. The only time this is not true is when religion comes into effect. Certian religions out there are just not happy unless thier religion is followed to the T, And some of those religions conflict with a well paying job, and freedoms. So loyalty does not so much depend on time as it does conditions.

Now how should this be portrayed in the current game?
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Joccend »

ncbeach wrote:
tkobo wrote:Sadly no, we keep asking for this, but havent yet convinced the main dev.So if you want to see it sometime in the future , get out your wisdom stick and be prepared to use it :P
*ncbeach pulls out wisdom stick*

loyalty should possibly change over time-

if the area is run better after conquest than before there stands a good chance that loyalty will change. a few nights ago on the hitler channel... :lol: i mean history channel.. there was a program on that asked a simple question.. did germans feel liberated or conquered after wwII... people felt one way or the other.. everyone had an opinion.

directly after the war if you were to poll the majority would have said conquered.. today the majority would see themselves as liberated... when did this change happen? how long did it take? these are excellent questions..

in modern times we can look to recent conflicts in georgia, afganistan, and iraq.. if you were to poll these populations with the same question how would they respond?

in georgia, the regions currently under russian control, the majority would probably say liberated..
in afganistan the majority would probably say liberated...
in iraq.. the majority would probably say conquered...

going back further you can ask this question of other conflicts.. the balkans, the falklands, vietnam... one thing is for sure... everyone will have an opinion.. very few would respond indifferent...

so should loyalty change over time in 2020?
my opinion is yes.. if the game is supposed to model the real world then you must include it.. but not always for the better.. regions should change loyalty for the positive and negative... depending on factors such as religious makeup, government type, and if a region is better off than before..

i can think of lots of reasons to include this feature... but i can also see drawbacks.. some players might want a simple game and an extra layer of complexity might turn them off.. but i think its safe to say the player base of 2020 likes complex games.. if we wanted to play something simple we would be playing the other 20 options out there for global domination.. in the end.. it would probably be best if this were an option to turn on or off at the beginning.. but saying its a bad idea all together is being out of touch with the player base.
BUMP, i whole-heartedly agree. I may not have a wisdom stick, but i have a "PUT THIS IDEA IN THE GAME OR I'LL BEAT YOU WITH THIS STICK" stick. :lol: Seriously though, the fact that loyalty doesn't change cripples a small country trying to expand, having everything in their new nation second rate.
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