Loyalty in conquered regions.

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Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

Aha, loyalty has no effect on the happiness. (approval rating)
Pwned9080
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Pwned9080 »

Some realism would be nice.
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Balthagor
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Balthagor »

Pwned9080 wrote:Some realism would be nice.
define realism? :lol:
Chris Latour
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Pwned9080
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Pwned9080 »

Balthagor wrote:
Pwned9080 wrote:Some realism would be nice.
define realism? :lol:
An exact simulation of every detail possible. Detailed enough that the citizens in the simulation do not even know it's a simulation but think it is a real existing world.
Seriously though, I think that loyalty should change with a differing rate based on, religous similarities, government type, propaganda, improvements in life(better health care, etc).
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Balthagor
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Balthagor »

Pwned9080 wrote:An exact simulation of every detail possible...
...would take years to design/code and not be a profitable enterprise for a company to undertake.
Pwned9080 wrote:I think that loyalty should change with a differing rate based on, religous similarities, government type, propaganda, improvements in life(better health care, etc).
What percentage change for what value under what conditions for each of those variables?

It's easy to say "just do it" but such things must be decided...

And to be clear, I personally would also like to see loyalty change.
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Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

In addition, you have to decide what effects loyalty should have. As long loyalty has only the 3 small effects, it doesnt matter if it changes over time, or not.
mTk
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by mTk »

Oops, thanks Balthagor for pointing me to this thread.

First of all, I am 100% sure loyalty DOES affect production efficiency, even though some others here have doubted so. I guess it was only in a recent update that loyalty started having an effect?

The fact that loyalty does not change throughout the game gives a BIG disadvantage to nations which start with less land.

I think it shouldn't be too hard to implement a changing loyalty system in the game. Make the hex loyalty just change slowly over time as you own the hex, with your DAR and GDP/capita acting as a speed modifier. I.e. the better the conditions in your nation, the quicker the conquered peoples will accept you. Surpassing a certain value, the loyalty then changes to your country.
Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

Opthalamia wrote:Lets talk about the effect, before we talk about what we wanny change.

1) Unloyal territory can revolt, if (as long) you are at war with the nation. If thery surrender, loyalty change imediatly.

2) Unloyal territory can switch the ownership, if an ally reconquer it. Again, if the nation does not exist any more, the effect cant occure.

3) Unloyal territory give a 25% production penalty now. It has no effect on the production cost, you only need more fabs.

I would say, dont waste time on this BG. We just build some new fabs.
only 3 was buggy before Global Crisis

Why is the disadvatage BIG?
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Balthagor
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Balthagor »

as in why is there a penalty? Lack of interest in producing for your region, they want their own region.
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mTk
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by mTk »

Why is the disadvantage big? Because smaller regions start with less land loyal to them. Therefore they get less products per fab, which like you said can be solved by building more fabs. However, that's going to end up increasing the facilities maintenance costs. This in turn increases your production costs causing you to be less competitive in the world market.

Perhaps the maintenance cost is not significant anymore by the time you control half a continent, but with small countries, it does count for something.
Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

The maintaince cost are below 1% of the goods production cost, thats something, but never BIG.
You have to spend 1/3 more for building fabs, thats all.
jarhead
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by jarhead »

I am pretty new, so I could be missing something. One additional consideration I have right now is my small regions run out of manpower to add more working facilities (full employment).

I would like to see loyalty change over time, under benevolent leadership.

Cheers
Graygan
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Graygan »

jarhead wrote:I am pretty new, so I could be missing something. One additional consideration I have right now is my small regions run out of manpower to add more working facilities (full employment).

I would like to see loyalty change over time, under benevolent leadership.

Cheers
To change the manpower issue, your best bet is to slowly build up a small army, then pick a fight with a high population/low tech nation and take it over. That will quickly solve your military man-power problems. It will also give you room to build more military unit production fabs since loyalty has no effect on how quickly your forces/missiles are built. Many people like Nigeria for this particular solution. Not too big, 120-130 million population, low tech level, and few units(none of which are advanced).

Aside from that, I agree with seeing loyalty change over time. However, it'd have to be a very long time, as in a decade at the absolute minimum. Maybe change loyalty to a % per hex, like supply and have it change by up to 5% per year depending on the economic situation. ie... is the GDP/C consistently higher than the original nation? Is the supply situation better than the previous nation? Are all the social services at 100% or higher(with Cultural at 150%+)? And so on.
CharlieRomeo
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by CharlieRomeo »

Rather than regions changing loyality i would like to see nationalist rebels popping up after a region is conquered.
Apart from it being easier to code (i hope hr hr) it would also be a challenge and reflect insurgencies nicely within the games restraints.
MadFrancis
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by MadFrancis »

I am not sure if it is possible to merge regions in-game with certain triggers, but I know you can merge countries into new regions/countries through modding. It might be too tricky or clumsy, but maybe at some point after being emliminated a region could/would become part of the conquerer's region thus sharing the same loyalty value of 1 (I am not sure if that value can be represented as anything other than 1).
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