Loyalty in conquered regions.

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Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

"Seriously though, the fact that loyalty doesn't change cripples a small country trying to expand, having everything in their new nation second rate."

False. Even a 500k citizen Nation can easy conquer the whole world. Loyalty is no heavy impact.
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Joccend
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Joccend »

Opthalamia wrote:"Seriously though, the fact that loyalty doesn't change cripples a small country trying to expand, having everything in their new nation second rate."

False. Even a 500k citizen Nation can easy conquer the whole world. Loyalty is no heavy impact.
But the fact remains it does have an impact. And no matter what we do, that effect is unchangeable at the moment.
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Pwned9080
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Pwned9080 »

Manufacturing in an unloyal region only gives like 67% of the output, that's a major handicap.
Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

But this has only 2 effects:

1) You have to build more fabs
2) You have higher maintains cost

Conquer the whole world is still easy.
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tkobo
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by tkobo »

Im for loyalty being able to change,as ive said before.BUT at a slow pace, so even IF it gets in as a game feature,that handicap is still going to be there for small nations.

If for instance it takes 10 years to get loyalty to a stage at which the penalty is small to non-existant,thats still 10 years from the time you beat them .
Times that by the amount of nations in the game, and you'll still find that handicap to be a measurable one.

This is also the way i think it should be.The things that make playing a small nation harder than a big nation,shouldnt be removed.A major difference needs to exist.The game world isnt supposed to be "balanced", and challanges that seperate the way a region plays from others need to exist.
I'd even say they need to be increased.
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Pwned9080
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Pwned9080 »

I agree it shouldn't be balanced and it should take time, but just saying 10 years is wrong. I also think that Loyalty should get worse. For instance if the US took over Russia, unless US made major changes to it's own government, or the government in Russia, Russia would not gain loyalty to the US. Or it would gain loyalty much slower than Canada or Mexico. In fact Mexico would probably go way faster.
Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

Why???

Canadian people can only loose something...freedom.
Perhabs if USA invade a <2.000 GDP/c region and send a lot of help afterwards...
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Ruges
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Ruges »

Like I said earlier it all has todo with how the people are treated afterwords. If thier life improves they are going to like if it stays the same or gets worse the people are going to dislike it.
Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

Pwned9080 wrote:Manufacturing in an unloyal region only gives like 67% of the output, that's a major handicap.
Thats false. Please only compare the output from fabs with a equal supplylevel.

3x water in my homeland 28.844 supplylevel 91%
3x water in Czech Rep. 26.075 supplylevel 75%

1x consumer goods in Graz, Austria 3.883 supply 75%
1x consumer goods in Leizig, homeland 4.007 supply 81%

Ok, loyalty do not influance production. What is influanced?
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tkobo
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by tkobo »

Unless somethings gotten broken, loyalty DOES influence production as a negative modifier for non loyal hexs.
This has been the case since sr2010.

Now something might be broken,i dont know.Or it might simply not report correctly due to the new facility system only showing static stats.Kind of like the way you look at a units default stats, and than an actual units real stats as influenced by techs and such, and they dont match.
Loyalty Effects on Production – Similar to the supply model, if a production facility in your region is not located in territory that is loyal to you, this will affect the total production value that you can expect to receive from that facility. (For example, in areas totally loyal to another region, you could expect to receive as much as 50% less than the capacity of the facility. This can get even worse if the area is also in poor supply.)
Not sure how to test this.
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Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

Ok, another test.

I have some coalmines.

I deaktivate all coalmines in my homeland, 2 coalmines in Czech Rep. are aktive.

Production shown in the hex: 58.324. Total in my production summery 66.819

There are some modifieres like approval rating.

I deaktivate the Czech Rep coalmines and aktivate 2 in my homeland

Production shown in the hex: 62.720. Total in my production summery 71.862

58.324 <> 62.720 supply make the differenz
66.819/58.324 = 71.862/62.720 i cant see any effect for loyalty
Last edited by Opthalamia on Oct 21 2008, edited 1 time in total.
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tkobo
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by tkobo »

Okay, i did a fast test also.

i looked over each group of oil facs,found two hexs (one on loyal territory , and on in disloyal) with about the same amount of supply.
Both showed as having the about same production.

However, when i deactivated the hex in the non-loyal territory, and then compared total production before and after,the amounts didnt add up.

The total production was 47,227,120(before).
The amount reported as the non-loyal hexs production was 174,645.
Now if i minus the hex amount from the total, i get 47,052,475.This is what the new production total should have been after i deactivated the hex.

BUT my actual new production total was 47,023,808(after).
A difference of 203,312.
Which means total production lost an additional 28,667 worth of production when that hex was turned off.

Roughly the same for the loyal hex.Again a drop in production larger than it should have been according to the numbers,and agian bout 29k worth more.
Last edited by tkobo on Oct 21 2008, edited 2 times in total.
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Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

production shown in a hex 174.645
total production difference 203.312

You have a approval rating of 32-33%?
Global modifiers make the differece between hex-numbers and total production.
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tkobo
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by tkobo »

30.8%
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Opthalamia
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Re: Loyalty in conquered regions.

Post by Opthalamia »

Ok, perhabs i get a chance to catch the global modifieres another time.

I run with economic difficulty very hard and a approval rating of 46% (normal effect). My global modifier is only ~15%.

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