Air Defense - Laser --- very weak, looks like joke!

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rbilka
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Air Defense - Laser --- very weak, looks like joke!

Post by rbilka »

Air Defense in game is very very weak, almost not usable at all.

1x Air defense (year 2010), should shoot any plane, even USA's F12A-BlackBird (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_Blackbird), when it is flying direct over Air defense! Or perhaps (in case of F12A) with chance 50:50.

Consider this:
Now, I have 18x "Air Defense-Laser" in 4 spots one next to another with advanced radar in middle.
Than i have 25x Mig-41 (high-altitude fighter, created against F12A), patrolling between 2-3 spots over those air defenses.
And than F12A can fly direct over all Air Defenses, than directly through 25x Mig-41, you see "flames/hits" out of F12A, and finaly F12A will only receive 3 point damage (decreasing health from 18 to 15)!

In reality:
F12A can be shoot down with single rocket fired from Mig-25 or Mig-41 with almost 100% chance, when those meets each other on short distance (3-10km?).
F12A may have some anti-rocket defense (radar disruption, heat/laser defense) but against modern rocket, this is not very effective defense, certainly not on short distance.

F12A is flying at 85000feet = 25km altitude, at speed around 2500km/h (for short time it can fly even faster at 3500km/h, but that only to try overrun rockets incoming from long distance).
For example Russian mobile defense S-300, has effective defense distance till 200km (standard 120km), and speed of rockets around 10000km/h. Can be navigated to target by radar, camera, heat, GPS. It can shoot something even in altitudes over 27km (some versio 35km altitude)!

Look on some documentary, or investigate, how are flying paths for F12A-BlackBird created in reality (to avoid flying path over/close to Air Defenses).

Very similar problem is protection against USA strategic bombers. I have line of Air Defenses, every 90-120km i have spot, where are 3-5x Air Defense build. When massive USA attacks come, those (around 400x) Air Defenses are unable to shoot down those airplanes. Perhaps from 400 planes it can shoot down maybe 3 or 5!
It seems they are constantly changing targets (multiple planes approaching), and therefore they are only "damaging" some of them, but are not finishing damaged!

For example single mobile S300 can:
Number of simultaneously engaged targets: 36
Number of simultaneously guided missiles: 72

I think whole concept of "air defenses" in this game is wrong.
You don't have way, how to make difference between air defense tech. level from 1950, and air defense tech. level from 2010.

What I am proposing:
1) There should be more AIR DEFENSE types (not standard/laser), but perhaps 50's 70's 90's and 2010's.
2) Every single AIR DEFENSE should have integrated RADAR
3) Every AIR DEFENSE should fire rockets (those rocket should be just graphics representation on map, unlimited amount).

For example:
Air Defense (2010's)
Attack/Range: 400km
Max shooting targets in range: 40
Rocket shoot rate: 2 per 1 minute
Price: very high

Air Defense (1950's)
Attack/Range: 50km
Max shooting targets in range: 10
Rocket shoot rate: 1 per 10 minute
Price: very cheap

and etc.

Therefore, Air Defenses should shoot rockets in given rate of fire (unlimited number of rockers, just for graphics representation) at every target in range (till max. target reached).
And remember, there is nothing like "damage" in air rocket era. There is only MISS or SHUTDOWN, almost nothing between (very very little chance), so no HEALTH decrease or some stupidity like that.

This would be more realistic, as it is now.
rbilka
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Re: Air Defense - Laser --- very weak, looks like joke!

Post by rbilka »

Also there is another problem.

How it is working right now:
It seems that Air Defenses are not attacking intruders immediately after they cross border. It sems that they are starting to track them only after they cross borders.

How it should working:
Any air plane in range of Air Defense radar should be tracked (targeted) all the time. It should not matter, if that plane is or is not crossing borders. They should be ready, and in exact moment, when they cross border, should be fired on immediately!

Also Fighters, which are under control of minister, should be send automatically to the borders, where are any other (unknown/enemy/neutral) planes approaching. Of course, fighters should shoot down planes, which are not crossing borders, but they should be ready, and fly with "unknown/enemy/neutral" planes as far as they can (at borders). They should be ready to shoot them down in exact moment, when they cross border.

Also, minister should send exactly 2 fighters, for every enemy/unknown/neutral plane approaching borders, to follow them. Rest of fighters should be send back to the base to be ready.
Fistalis
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Re: Air Defense - Laser --- very weak, looks like joke!

Post by Fistalis »

(decreasing health from 18 to 15)
They shot down 3 planes. A unit isn't a single jet its a squadron.
It seems that Air Defenses are not attacking intruders immediately after they cross border. It sems that they are starting to track them only after they cross borders.
They have to be spotted.. its the whole point of stealth to NOT be spotted. Some planes are easier to spot and will be tracked easier/faster than others.
If you want faster spotting/tracking invest in units with better radar (spotting stat)
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mrgenie
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Re: Air Defense - Laser --- very weak, looks like joke!

Post by mrgenie »

Can be navigated to target by radar, camera, heat, GPS
I'm not really sure what you mean, but GPS is an USA System which can be switched off for
everyone. They can limit it to US only or US + NATO..
I'm very sure the Russians won't rely on an American controlled GPS system!

The Russians do have some very "inaccurate" old system Glonass, inaccurate compared
to GPS or Galileo but accurate enough to drop nuclear warheads.
The latest extension of Glonass works interchangeable with GPS so users can use
GPS and Glonass at the same time, but Glonass alone is not as accurate as GPS.

Glonass alone has an accuracy of 10 meters tops, which degrades down to 20-30 meters
very rapidly in case of time shifts. And yes, even a 1s wrong time already causes you to
be 300meters away from your target. The Russians still have a huge problem with that
that's why they want to send more satellites into space with specific time-shift-markers
to compensate for the old and bad design flaws of Glonass.

GPS can be accurate up to 2,5 meters, but degrades down to 10-15 meters
with the time offsets..

GPS + GLonass can be accurate up to 1,5 meters if combined.

Galileo however can deliver an accuracy of 0,005meters. The free and open signals
for the slaves (=we humans) is accurate for up to 4 meters.. combined with Glonass
and GPS the total accuracy can be under 1meter..

But for the commercial there will be some very high-tech signal processing which allows
them for accuracies about 0,1m, good enough to let the satellite drive your car, which isn't possible
with GPS and Glonass.

For the governments of NATO there will be a special signal in Galileo, it'll allow
targetting of under 0,01meters. You can use the sat to put a bullet through someones
head. That's why it's initial state will be secret services only.. It's a dual encrypted
signal.
czert
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Re: Air Defense - Laser --- very weak, looks like joke!

Post by czert »

well, modernoized glonass accuracy (finished in 2011) is comparable to gps (well, in some places is more accurate in other less acurate, depending on position on earth).
Old glonass is no longer in use, same as old gps is no in use.
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czert
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Re: Air Defense - Laser --- very weak, looks like joke!

Post by czert »

Fistalis wrote:
(decreasing health from 18 to 15)
They shot down 3 planes. A unit isn't a single jet its a squadron.
It seems that Air Defenses are not attacking intruders immediately after they cross border. It sems that they are starting to track them only after they cross borders.
They have to be spotted.. its the whole point of stealth to NOT be spotted. Some planes are easier to spot and will be tracked easier/faster than others.
If you want faster spotting/tracking invest in units with better radar (spotting stat)
still, 3 plane from 18 shot down, despite cca 500 planes firing cca 2k missiles on them + another cca 2k from sams...it seems little unrealistic, isnt ? even if they will be super stealt, law of probality works here.
And stealt have one basic flaw - if you making plane stealth from one directio it is easier to spot from another.
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Want help to develop/play mod for one of best games ever ? Try this. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ub ... =cfrm&c=11
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