No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

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Mnemozyne
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No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Mnemozyne »

I did just try the latest patch 7.2.2 and been playing more then what can be considerd healthy. Now im definitly going to give up on this game. Whoever made the game have worked hard and are very good at what they are doing. But I cant help thinking if they ever had enough time to actually play the game. Therefore, I will be so kind to tell you about some problems this game have and a bit from a.. game creating philosophy kind of view. People might have said this before, you might already know it or have no way to change it or simply dont agree because of a higher developed understanding. Then just ignore those parts.

1. I was just playing a game on normal/easy/easy to make the broken economy less broken and it dossent really help, ill explain why later and even give you a few suggestions what you can do about it. Anway I was playing as Sweden and was about to run out of oil, never been producing any gods/industrial during the whole game only traded that from AI.
The target I picked was Yugoslavia, they where the only realisitc target with as much oil as possible (that oil later filled 6% of my daily need in oil consumption still making it impossible to produce any goods). Now this would be fine but the problem is that no other player have any oil to trade and the little they have, they ofcourse refuse to trade no matter what. Thats fine too I could have accepted that but here comes the other part.
Before I attacked my unenployment was down to 2,8%, after the war when my population increased from 7,5m to 20m the unemployment was down to 2,6%. Ofcourse I had to decomission all useless facilities like airports, barracks, ore/coal mines, factories, research center, and so on. (is this a bug?)
Now if you understand what this mean, it mean that my workforce didnt go up but my food/water/lumber/oil need just more then doubled because the AI cheat and produce food without having any food producing structures. Now this still wouldnt have been a problem I couldnt overcome if it wassnt because I dont have any workforce and cant really build these structures they need. It would be possible to trade other countries for these resources but first they dont really have any resources to trade, second they dont trade it cheap normaly and third, after you declared war its insane how hard it is to trade anything with anyone. As if North Korea really really care about my war with some other minor european country? (not very realistic). Im not sure but almost sure, that the AI never build any improvements like new farms ect. (Almost forgot, isnt it strange that the people you declare war on get to vote on you or against as president because youre a democracy? This cause problem in this scenario.)

2. It takes an hour to maximize trade when you start a new game before you unpause, recycle buildings you dont need to free up workforce and economy and its really only at the first turn that its really possible to form any kind of agreements after that it gets really hard. When the game just start you can abuse the AI to get as much out of your trades as possible in both agreements, resources and techs. This result in the player trading all resources from all the players, im not sure how this is supposed to be realistic. (I assume its been the goal, to make the game realisitc thats why the actual gameplay become so bad and frustrating). The solution to this could be to add "single right click" on the thing you want to trade, that would cut the number of clicks you have to do in half and maybe and SHIFT click to select several techs at the same time or make it possible to trade whole tech groups.

Here comes a little bit of game philosophy in. Always make the player able to do the things he or she need to do, with the least possible number of mouse clicks. This become more important the bigger, advanced the game is or the more the player have to do. When I play this game I spend 60% of my time in diplomacy screen clicking on an insane number of techs to trade, mostly unit designs and some of them even give you less then 1m. What will the AI trade you for 1m? The answer is nothing. I have to ask your game designer, is this supposed to be so fun that you put focus on it so much?
I basicly think I understand why you get so little from your deals when you trade, because the AI dont trade with eachother the player have monopoly on the tech trade wich makes it extreamly valuable. But yet again, this isnt realistic or fun.

3. One solution to manage the oil shortage problem could be to add 3 buttons where the player can turn on/off access to oil for "the military" "the industries" "the population". The population dont really need oil they can find substitutes.

4. Heres a link about oil shale, a substitute to oil during WW2 even Sweden created some and today USA is investing more and more in this energy source.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_shale

5. industry/consumer goods is an unclear concept but im sure that people in need find substitutes and can create most of these but at a higher price then if they had oil. If you aim to make a realistic game then it might be an option to let the player create these goods but at a higher price.

6. Or you can add one more resource called "fuel" where the player get X number of fuel from one oil by working it in a refinery. This will also add slightly to the number of buildings in your cities and make the game richer.


Not tierd reading yet? Well be my guest, please do continue....
1, Add bonuses possitive/negative and let the player recruit a leader from a leader pool that updates randomly. (Finance, producion, state, research, military leaders.)

2, Make it easier for the player to set rally point from factories. In "production queue and management" there is room to and a rally point button. (yes you can do it somehow but its a big problem). And/or add select the factory and shift + click on the map where you want it to be.

3, Give the player the option in game menu to turn off the core concept of the game, and remove the two spheres. Again, if the player wants to do it then why refuse it?

4, Update the graphics on railroads / roads, make the railroad half as wide and dont let them overlap the road, it can run alongside the roads if planted on the same hex.

5, Give the player the ability to create new cities and name them. If a player wants to do that, theres absolutley no reason to deny the player of that. Same goes with roads and infrastructure, let the player delete them if so desired.

6, Implement a way for the player to navigate the worldmap by using arrow keys.

7, Give the player the abillity to set free a country they anexed or force an enemy that surrender to set free another country. This should improve other countries relation. Theres no good way to change relations to the better or repair them as it is now. I know that you want it to reflect reality and that relations changes over time but then again. Are we reading a damn history book or playing a game for fun? Makes it quite the paradox too because its not very realistic in other ways (like the way tech-trade is being done). Remember what you are, game developers not history book developers.

8, If you click on a stack of units, you can use ctrl to select a few units in that stack and this is good but not good enough. The player need to shift click on several places on the map to select units in several groups all over the map. It would also be good if you could shift click on the units in a stack where you use CTRL and add as many units as you want from there. This will again make the number of clicks less.

9, Need a filter to remove all units on the map (maybe there is one, havent found it). My allies got stacked over the land I occupied and I couldnt find the cities fast enough to manage them.

10, If the number of units are a factor that slows down the game and suck CPU power then give players the option to increase the building cost of units. If the unit cost/build time is twice as high you will get alot less units on the map. Many dont care if they have 100 units to play with or 2000 units but almost every player hate the lag and slow turns.

11, Late game SRCW never used more then (average)26% of my CPU (4core SB 2500k) with the last patch, with the latest 7.2.2 patch it says 27-28% average. With other words, its not our hardware that slows down the game its the software it self, right.

12, To deal with number of clicks, dont make it possible to to trade with every country in the world its ok to set half the trade partners.

13, Because tech-trade as it is now have too much focus and players need to do something except watching the clock I suggest thinking out a way to improve city management. This include new/more buildings and another way of dealing with your city. When playing bigger nations this might get overwhelming depending on how you would change this and must have an automated option but it would be good for those who play smaller nations and have less to do.

14, Consider updating the trees on the map they look horrible. No complaints about the other graphic. This will contribute alot to the player experience.

15, It get very tireing to listen to the same music and the few sounds hour after hour.. its a good theme but its like making food. When you eat food you use several senses, smell, eyesight, taste, consistency. Games work in a simular way, you have the gameplay(that can be alot of things), graphics, music and the mental parts where you get to work with your brain. All these things are important to make a good game the same way its important that the food you eat dont only taste well but look, smell and feel good too.

16, The icon under the UN icon, just above the minimap cover "electric power" and "population" and I can barley click it. I dont know if its like that for everyone but it sure is for me. (graphic glitch?)

17, The save files are a joke, they dont get sorted in chronological order and when you press F12 to quick save they get a random name. If you add the time when the save file was saved (and maybe day) it gets alot easier. As it works now I have to use pen and paper and write down the name of my latest save file.

18, It would be nice to have the opportunity to delete savefiles from within the game by selecting it and pressing delete instead of going to some windows dir and delete them there.

19, Sometimes when you trade and the AI accepted it (dark green) and you add one more tech it suddenly go red. It cant be ment for the AI to refuse a trade because you give him an extra tech can it?

20, The french guys win the Vietnamn war every time and without any fight, its a walkover. History says diffrent and im under the impression that youre trying to make a historic/realisitc game.

21, North Korea attack South Korea pretty much every time and lose in a few minutes to the US and after that Korea is united and history rewritten, same outcome every time. I dont mind that, but if we are realistic now, the real onflict lasted for 3 years, in this game it last for a few days and its because its obviously poorly balanced and does not reflect the reality. The exact same thing happen game after game. An idea would be to force the AI vs AI to make a peace treaty before north is eliminated or balance the two powers so much that anyone could win. Because the way it is now is like watching a movie over and over, you know whats happen before you even started the game.

22, Knowing a unit design add attack bonus vs that unit - makes trading worthless unit designs actually worth something.

23, Traded 300 industrial goods for 999 days but it didnt work, instead it trade it as a 300 industrial lump sum. Could this be a bug?

24, Under resources / actual use, add information where the "actual use" resources are going to help the player lower the usage of that resource.


If you got annoyed by reading all this crap im sorry. I dont really expect anyone to read all of this but great if you do. Im tierd, lack of sleep, I dont expect anyone to do anything about any of this but those who live will see. Im uinstalling this game again thats for sure. If anyone want me to write more nonsens ill continue another day, otherwise ill just shut up. Either way im hungry now. =)
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Balthagor
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Balthagor »

Mnemozyne wrote:I did just try the latest patch 7.2.2...
I stopped reading here since the latest update is version 7.3.1. Please clarify...
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Mnemozyne
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Mnemozyne »

Balthagor wrote:
Mnemozyne wrote:I did just try the latest patch 7.2.2...
I stopped reading here since the latest update is version 7.3.1. Please clarify...
Ah thats sad but ill clearify it. First I downloaded the game from Gamersgate.com but got an old version so then I clicked on "update" in the game menu and assumed id get the latest update. I shouldnt have assumed that.
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Balthagor
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Balthagor »

version 7.3.1 was just released less than two weeks ago. You might have "updated" before it was all linked in. I'd encourage you to load up the new update and see if it changes some of your comments. I'll glance over the post a bit more but it should be noted we've said before that one thread with an excessive number of topics (which 24 would qualify) are not the type of threads we respond too. It becomes a nightmare to keep the various topics straight.
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Balthagor
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Balthagor »

Yeah, many of these are much different with version 7.3.1 and the rest is a mess of feature ideas. Some of your ideas I flat out disagree with such as the second #3 of turning off the core gameplay. It's the core concept. You're asking for a different game.

Try the new update, I hope it improves the experience for you. If you'd like to offer some development suggestions, I would encourage you to post each feature proposal as a separate thread to promote efficient discussion of the idea.
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Aragos
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Aragos »

One thing you can do that will solve a lot of your problems is learn how to manipulate the economic system.

Oil is a good example--you need it for the tanks.

So, try this:

1) Lock it from minister control.
2) Go to the little factory symbol. Raise civilian price to maximum.
3) Civilian consumption will drop immediately (too expensive!). You will take a hit on popularity, but you can deal with that before the next election.
4) Go to Electric Power. Go down to the bottom construction icon. Click on it then select Petrol Power from the list. If you have any of them, scrap or deactivate them. They will be guzzling oil to make energy.

Now, let the game run a full day and check on your Petrol status. You should have an excess if you are producing any at all. You can stop or reduce exports as well as needed to build up a stockpile, or to stop importing any oil, etc. as needed.

You can repeat this process with nearly all of your consumer demands to control how much your population wants/needs/gets.
Mnemozyne
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Mnemozyne »

Balthagor wrote:version 7.3.1 was just released less than two weeks ago. You might have "updated" before it was all linked in. I'd encourage you to load up the new update and see if it changes some of your comments. I'll glance over the post a bit more but it should be noted we've said before that one thread with an excessive number of topics (which 24 would qualify) are not the type of threads we respond too. It becomes a nightmare to keep the various topics straight.
I updated the game one or two days ago. Was trying to find the update and went to http://www.supremerulercoldwar.com/ first, there it said that I should go to (in my case Gamersgate.com) due to compatibility issues to download the latest patch. Problem was that I couldnt find any updates there at all so I came back here and it got to be my lucky day today because you already posted a link to the update. Ill download and install it thanks.

I dont demand anything, including any response. If anyone is interested to read then go ahead, if not dont bother. Its fully understandable that most people dont want to spend their valuable time reading jibberish and it was +30 topics in total that would have flooded the forum. Better make one thread, easier to ignore that.

About turning off the core concept of the game. I dont disagree about you disagreeing but can you give a logical reason to not let the player play the game as the player desire? As I see it, it would contribute to the diversity of the game and let the player decide what game mode that the player prefer. Most likley it would result in the player trying both modes and stick to the one they find to be the most fun.
Mnemozyne
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Mnemozyne »

Aragos wrote:One thing you can do that will solve a lot of your problems is learn how to manipulate the economic system.

Oil is a good example--you need it for the tanks.

So, try this:

1) Lock it from minister control.
2) Go to the little factory symbol. Raise civilian price to maximum.
3) Civilian consumption will drop immediately (too expensive!). You will take a hit on popularity, but you can deal with that before the next election.
4) Go to Electric Power. Go down to the bottom construction icon. Click on it then select Petrol Power from the list. If you have any of them, scrap or deactivate them. They will be guzzling oil to make energy.

Now, let the game run a full day and check on your Petrol status. You should have an excess if you are producing any at all. You can stop or reduce exports as well as needed to build up a stockpile, or to stop importing any oil, etc. as needed.

You can repeat this process with nearly all of your consumer demands to control how much your population wants/needs/gets.
Thanks for the solutions but im affraid that.

1. Thats the first thing I do before I start/unpause a new game. Set all iniative to zero and lock all minister controls.
2. Did that too didnt help. Im not sure if the world market place on oil was maxed out too possibly could have anything to do with that. (no idea how it really works).
3. Low popularity isnt a big problem, tax at 0% before the election work too.
4. The first thing I do in a new game is to recycle/destroy all bad buildings like airports/barracks/military factories (this is very easy to trade at a low cost anyway). Any building creating electricity from Petrol is no exception. If I capture any enemy terretory its the first building that get removed and instantly. Its actually never worth it to get energy from oil, there are a few exceptions but they are extreme. Might as well get it from coal then and import the coal due to the huge price difference in coal vs oil. Coal is also relativley easy to trade.


The production cost for oil is 4$ for coal its 5$ however when the world market price on oil is maxed out at 21$ the price on coal is still the same as the production cost 5$. But dont forget that the energy output of coal plants is twice the number of oil plants. Im not sure if coalplants use 2 units of coal when petrol plants use 1 unit of petrol because it dossent say but I assume they both use 1 unit each.

This mean that even if youre an oil rich nation like Kuwait its better to get your energy from coal, import the coal and export the oil. Im not sure if this is supposed to simulate the reality experienced in the 1950s but.......
Last edited by Mnemozyne on Jan 09 2013, edited 1 time in total.
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Balthagor
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Balthagor »

Mnemozyne wrote:...can you give a logical reason to not let the player play the game as the player desire?...
Every feature, every game function requires time to implement, then test, then support. Lots of code is interconnected. I'd rather our programmer spend time adding features within the core game concept then spend time bypassing what we spent some much time working on. It would not make sense for us to implement features based on things one person requests, that's why we use forum threads to generate discussion and see what large portions of our customer base are asking for collectively.
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Mnemozyne
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Mnemozyne »

Balthagor wrote:
Mnemozyne wrote:...can you give a logical reason to not let the player play the game as the player desire?...
Every feature, every game function requires time to implement, then test, then support. Lots of code is interconnected. I'd rather our programmer spend time adding features within the core game concept then spend time bypassing what we spent some much time working on. It would not make sense for us to implement features based on things one person requests, that's why we use forum threads to generate discussion and see what large portions of our customer base are asking for collectively.
So it just have a very low priority due to understandable reasons that get a higher priority if lots of people ask for it. Dont get me wrong I like the core concept too but its like playing a scenario it locks the number of options a bit. Yes im just one person and if id say nothing there would be zero (good or bad?). No there wouldnt be zero but you would see zero. I understand its a sensitive subject because you put so much work and effort into this but its not the same as a failure even if some people would want such a feature added.

I think we can agree on that most would play a game today where you only can follow one road from point A to point B. Instead we want to freely chose where to go, we want options.

As a practical example, ive played 3 games in a row now and I really want to attack Norway but it isnt really possible because the scenario locks down the number of options. The scenario narrow down the possible nations I could attack or become allies with. When people played the scenario countless of times and get tierd of it im sure they would love a feature to remove the cold war concept to try things in the game. Things they couldnt because the limits of the scenario. Most of them definitly wouldnt go here and write about it due to several reasons.

Maybe they think something like: hey im just one guy I cant make them change this theres no point to even try because noone else is requesting this. ;)
Btw, I find it really odd that im the first one to with such a request have it actually never even been discussed before?
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by PyongYang »

Menkal.
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Balthagor
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Balthagor »

It may have been discussed before. Did you try searching before you wrote your post?
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Mnemozyne
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Re: No, not this time either. "uninstall again".

Post by Mnemozyne »

If it have been discussed before its not just one guy who want this then.
No I didnt check for other threads about the subject, just made a batch of things and I see now that I was wrong. Should have made one topic for each and before that, search the forum for similar subjects before that. It wont happen again.
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