Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

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Zuikaku
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Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#1 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 09 2012

AI vs. AI wars are becoming very problematic. Here are some examples.

1. Ethiopia invades Eritrea. War lasts for years. Eritrea crumbles. But not seeks peace. It becomes island state (Aranat island) only cause Ethiopian AI don't have skill to do landing. And it still don't seek peace. And the war lasts forever!

2. Israel invades Egypt. And fails. Got defeated. But just don't sue for peace and get anihillated.

3. China invades India. War lasts for years and is stalemate. Again, no one sues for peace and casualties mounts to millions. Than Pakistan invades India. India is wiped out.

4. North Korea invades South Korea. In this game it is stalemate. And war lasts for 15 years. They are never tired of fighting.

5. UK declares war on player (Iraq). Attempt a few landings which failed. After that attempts nothing. But refuses any peace offers so war lasts for 20 years!!!


Please, do something about that! AI shoul'd offer peace more often. This situation is just so unrealistic! If AI just don't know who is losing the war, offers may just be random. Something can surely be done to end those endless wars.

AI should also annex less and colonize/liberate more (randomly selected).
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

number47
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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#2 Post by number47 » Dec 09 2012

Zuikaku wrote:5. UK declares war on player (Iraq). Attempt a few landings which failed. After that attempts nothing. But refuses any peace offers so war lasts for 20 years!!!
Come on, what did you do to piss them off? :D
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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#3 Post by SGTscuba » Dec 09 2012

I have got to agree with this, there should be at least some decent conditions under which the AI would try and make peace.
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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#4 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 09 2012

number47 wrote: Come on, what did you do to piss them off? :D
I only invaded and annexed (liberated) Kuwait :D
Anyway, some sort of economic sanctions (innability to export oil) would cause me more trouble than endless "war". But that is another story :wink:
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#5 Post by Hullu Hevonen » Dec 09 2012

One way to try to get the AI to end it's wars is to introduce an 'goodwill' system where the AI bribes his enemy if he is loosing badly and the offer an peace agreement
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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#6 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 09 2012

Hullu Hevonen wrote:One way to try to get the AI to end it's wars is to introduce an 'goodwill' system where the AI bribes his enemy if he is loosing badly and the offer an peace agreement
Or just random peace offers as a hotfix until more time for introduction of "goodwill" system is available.
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#7 Post by goulash » Dec 09 2012

Now something like war exhaustion would be nice if the ai could use it.

Even a random UN threat with option to accept deal or suffer some form of penalties if only ai could learn to accept it.

10-20 year wars with such states as China vs India sound bad and one would hope to limit war duration to about 6 years. Hell world wars only last that long 8_. In fact maybee BG should put a war time limit into the game. I know there are a few circumstances where wars can last a long time but they are in the minority.

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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#8 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 09 2012

But that doesn't mean that all wars have to last exactly 6 years :wink:
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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#9 Post by goulash » Dec 09 2012

No they dont, but a random number generator from 5 to 9 years should be enough rather than a scripted exact time limit.

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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#10 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 09 2012

goulash wrote:No they dont, but a random number generator from 5 to 9 years should be enough rather than a scripted exact time limit.
It is a bit strange that nobody noticed this problem- especially if it also exist in previous titles of Supreme Ruler series....
And I think it is not very hard to correct this one.
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#11 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 16 2012

Please, do something about endless wars. Never seen that two AI states end wars. Seeing wars raging for decades is becoming very annoying and frustrating. If AI has scripts when it offers peace and ends war, then it ,obviously, needs to be tweaked, cause this way it is not functioning well. |O
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#12 Post by PyongYang » Dec 16 2012

Zuikaku wrote:1. Ethiopia invades Eritrea. War lasts for years. Eritrea crumbles. But not seeks peace. It becomes island state (Aranat island) only cause Ethiopian AI don't have skill to do landing. And it still don't seek peace. And the war lasts forever!
Yes this has happened every game I've played. It's a small annoyance. I've taken to helping Eriterea with allying/cash/arms to finish the job.... I like to help the underdog ;)
2. Israel invades Egypt. And fails. Got defeated. But just don't sue for peace and get anihillated.
Quite realistic in my view, I could never see the Israelies backing down!
3. China invades India. War lasts for years and is stalemate. Again, no one sues for peace and casualties mounts to millions. Than Pakistan invades India. India is wiped out.
I've never seen India win this. I think I'll play as them after update 3 and wait for China to attack, and see if I can change this!
4. North Korea invades South Korea. In this game it is stalemate. And war lasts for 15 years. They are never tired of fighting.
Really? There's pretty much always been a swift conclusion to this either way in my games, usually a South Korea win, but the North has won a few times. Never anywhere near 15 years!
5. UK declares war on player (Iraq). Attempt a few landings which failed. After that attempts nothing. But refuses any peace offers so war lasts for 20 years!!!
Perhaps they have financial/resource problems? They can't send in the tanks without oil and finances...
AI shoul'd offer peace more often..... ....AI should also annex less and colonize/liberate more.....
Definitely in agreement with that.

Come on guys with Update 3, I'm itching to play again 8)

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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#13 Post by Anthropoid » Dec 20 2012

I had read this thread and I was worried about my current game. Playing as Egypt in the GC scenario. I spent four years no war at all, just building up my infrastructure and economy. I cranked on tech trading and by the time I won the election I had quite a few of the U.S. more recent unit designs and had built up a pretty decent army (Bradley, F16, F15, M1A1 [which Egypt starts with], M1907, Spec Ops, Ranger, Airborne Elite, etc.).

My first war against Sudan went well. I had occupied half the country and knocked them out of their capital twice within about one month.

That was when the Israelis sneak attacked me. Luckily I had a pretty decent reserve defense set up and using my C5A Galaxies was able to fly quite a bit of stuff back from Sudan to Egypt to counter their first, second and third waves. Got very close to losing one city but then using a mass airborne drop and a tank wave I broke their offensive. I then drove them back across the Sinai and spent a couple more days getting ordered. I then launched an all out attack on Southern Israel, managing within a couple days to take all of southern Israel up to and including Gaza and Hebron.

It was at this point that I realized "I've got a lot of units heading off to the repair shop, continuing with two wars widely spaced out isn't such a good idea any more." So having pushed the Israelis back a good bit and taken a few of their settlements, I offered peace.

I fully expected based on this thread that the AI would do the typical game diplomatic AI thing and refuse even though I had them overa barrel. But nope, a simple offer of peace was green for them and after they had a couple days to mull it over they accepted!

So evidently whatever problems you are expeiencing with the AI "never" accepting peace until they are eliminated were either fixed in the Gold version, or only happen sometimes?

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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#14 Post by Zuikaku » Dec 21 2012

Anthropoid wrote:I had read this thread and I was worried about my current game. Playing as Egypt in the GC scenario. I spent four years no war at all, just building up my infrastructure and economy. I cranked on tech trading and by the time I won the election I had quite a few of the U.S. more recent unit designs and had built up a pretty decent army (Bradley, F16, F15, M1A1 [which Egypt starts with], M1907, Spec Ops, Ranger, Airborne Elite, etc.).

My first war against Sudan went well. I had occupied half the country and knocked them out of their capital twice within about one month.

That was when the Israelis sneak attacked me. Luckily I had a pretty decent reserve defense set up and using my C5A Galaxies was able to fly quite a bit of stuff back from Sudan to Egypt to counter their first, second and third waves. Got very close to losing one city but then using a mass airborne drop and a tank wave I broke their offensive. I then drove them back across the Sinai and spent a couple more days getting ordered. I then launched an all out attack on Southern Israel, managing within a couple days to take all of southern Israel up to and including Gaza and Hebron.

It was at this point that I realized "I've got a lot of units heading off to the repair shop, continuing with two wars widely spaced out isn't such a good idea any more." So having pushed the Israelis back a good bit and taken a few of their settlements, I offered peace.

I fully expected based on this thread that the AI would do the typical game diplomatic AI thing and refuse even though I had them overa barrel. But nope, a simple offer of peace was green for them and after they had a couple days to mull it over they accepted!

So evidently whatever problems you are expeiencing with the AI "never" accepting peace until they are eliminated were either fixed in the Gold version, or only happen sometimes?
I'm talking about AI vs. AI wars and proxy AI wars (AI UK vs. player Iraq). Never seen AI vs. AI wars to stop unless one side is completely annihilated.
Please teach AI to liberate and colonize instead of only annexing!

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Re: Endless wars issue and AI vs. AI wars

#15 Post by Anthropoid » Dec 21 2012

Yeah, after I posted that, I figured maybe that was what you were talking about. I agree too; Russia has been at war with Estonia, Finland, Poland, Ukraine, Turkey and one other littler neighbor for nearly five years now; no end in site for any of them.

In each of these cases, it does make sense that the wars would continue though; Russia has bit off just about as much as it can chew. While it has made large gains i Finland, and Ukraine, the front in Turkey has wavered back and forth in the same region of the original border for years. So in sum, in real life it would not behoove either side to negotiate peace: 6 or 7 smaller allied nations that are at risk of being conquered if any single one of them surrender, one big monster who has no interest in surrendering but just can't manage to 'win.'

In this case, I have no problem with the war being 'endless,' as that is likely how it would tend to play out in real life. There have been in the last century some very long duration wars. Vietnam being the main one that was high intensity for many years, but there are others too. One could argue that the Arab-Israeli wars which started in the late 19th century have been on and off hot phases of one long drawn out war.

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