battleships

[wsoxfan]

In the preview AAR on the paradox forums, the previewer said he only saw one kind of battleship for the US, the Iowa class.

Say it ain't so Battlegoat. Please.

[Balthagor]

There are more than one. There is only one active design in the US by 1949.

[Chesehead]

There are more than one. There is only one active design in the US by 1949.

So no Montana class?

[CptBritish]

I think Balthagor means there is only one type of Battleship ready to be deployed or built.

The Montana was never built correct? because of the cost of Battleships and their vunerability to air units. hes not saying it 'can't' be built

P.S. I hope

[Slyguy3129]

Yea the Montana never made it off the drawing board, the Iowa class is still the oh active BB class. And by active I mean sitting in a dock somewhere costing lots of money!

[wsoxfan]

True, but if we were to do every thing the same as real life, we would know what would happen and wouldn't play it after a couple of times because of it being repeitive.

[geminif4ucorsair]

Yea the Montana never made it off the drawing board, the Iowa class is still the oh active BB class. And by active I mean sitting in a dock somewhere costing lots of money!

Wrong...the first Montana was "laid down".

The game also has HMS Vanguard.

There will be more battleships and battlecruisers (BC) forthcoming in future Updates, and may include Montana and other never
built ships. The US had several other classes, from modernized California / Tennessee and others still in reserve to 1960-62, plus more modern Washington and South Dakota classes w/16-inch (406mm) main guns. Consideration was given and designs explored
on several of these, including the "Alaska" large cruisers into missile ships - with several configurations studies (Terrier or Talos SAM,
ballistic missile options, etc).

Hopefully BG will go along with the effort underway (rating).

[Chesehead]

The hard thing is though that a lot of the older battleships were old, so they require more maintinence. Also, the engine doesn't really have a good way of upgrading ships yet, which would be ideal for the older ships to upgrade them into something more modern.

[geminif4ucorsair]

The hard thing is though that a lot of the older battleships were old, so they require more maintinence. Also, the engine doesn't really have a good way of upgrading ships yet, which would be ideal for the older ships to upgrade them into something more modern.

The older American 16" battleships (South Dakota and Washington class) would have no more maintenance demands than the larger Iowa class, except as regards having smaller manning levels. This is all handled by SRs maintenance criteria, based on random know costs from historical research by some of its supporters (including self).

As for the really older ships, such as the remaining "slow battleships" (Tennessee, Maryland, Colorado, etc.), I would doubt that the rebuilt Tennessee / California cost any more than an Iowa to maintain, having been completely rebuilt in 1942-44 and with many of the same radars, fire control, etc. of their more modern "fast battleships" - but its worth researching and using.

The role for the U.S. "slow" battleships - and remember one (Mississippi) was converted as a test ship for Terrier SAM system -
would mostly be convoy protection and amphibious fire support in a general war....the same role they played from 1944 onward in WW2....in the event this dramatic even never occurred during the Cold War, they were eventually declared surplus to needs in 1960-62.

If I am playing the U.S. player, I would still not mind having them around for a couple decades, even if they require missile ship and submarine escorts, just as convoy's should have during the Cold War.

AND,

the engine doesn't really have a good way of upgrading ships yet

.....I doubt this very much, as other games have this feature incorporated.
One needs to begin with the premise that there is already an existing Unit in the inventory, then develop the parameters (time to rebuilt or upgrade, cost, new characteristics, etc.) that are all part of current Unit ratings.

That it has been done with so many other games, blaming the 'game engine' seem unfair to the game engine!

[Chesehead]

In the cold war context, they'd be sitting targets, since the soviets lacked a credible blue water surface force untill the mid 60's to early 70's.
The US also was not looking into massive D-day style invasions in the cold war, which is all 14 in slow battleships are good for. Plus you also have to factor in ammo production capabilities, as I think the US stopped producing 14 in shells during WW2. The Navy also had brand new cruisers with semi auto 6-8 in weapons that can deliver around the same amount of firepower as a salvo of 14 in shells. They also required a smaller crew as well.



As for game engine requirements, I want to say that the Dev's are avoiding major engine changes for patches, so they might consider it for the expansion, though you'd have to ask a Dev about that.

[geminif4ucorsair]

In the cold war context, they'd be sitting targets, since the soviets lacked a credible blue water surface force untill the mid 60's to early 70's. The US also was not looking into massive D-day style invasions in the cold war, which is all 14 in slow battleships are good for. Plus you also have to factor in ammo production capabilities, as I think the US stopped producing 14 in shells during WW2. The Navy also had brand new cruisers with semi auto 6-8 in weapons that can deliver around the same amount of firepower as a salvo of 14 in shells. They also required a smaller crew as well.

As for game engine requirements, I want to say that the Dev's are avoiding major engine changes for patches, so they might consider it for the expansion, though you'd have to ask a Dev about that.

I did not contend they would be survivable past the early-60s, which is one reason they were retired.

However, be aware that US/NATO did indeed plan several contingency amphibious landing along the Norwegian and Arctic coast -
areas that became major Soviet submarine basing areas by the late-60s - and while no one would anticipate a Normandy or Operation Olympic sized operation, even a single divisional invasion is easily conceivable in SR-Cold War - look at Inchon (Korea).

Agreed that the flexibility offered by newer Des Moines, Worcester and slightly earlier heavy cruisers offered greater flexibility in operations, but when you need and offshore heavy fire support vessel where speed, armor protection, etc. is desired, its hard
to beat what the modernized-Colorado and Tennessee classes offered.

It's all the more convenient when the SR system allows re-activation of a reserve unit on the same day you request it
[Boy, those Reservists are fast.... ]

[geminif4ucorsair]

Yea the Montana never made it off the drawing board, the Iowa class is still the oh active BB class. And by active I mean sitting in a dock somewhere costing lots of money!

Wrong....Montana class units, first two, did have keels laid, plus special building dry docks were built for them, because no shipyard on the East Coast had a graving dock large enough to accommodate the length and adjacent water depth to launch the super-BBs from....

same problem faced Germany with possible successors to the Bismarck & Tirpitz ships.

[flashy]

The hard thing is though that a lot of the older battleships were old, so they require more maintinence. Also, the engine doesn't really have a good way of upgrading ships yet, which would be ideal for the older ships to upgrade them into something more modern.

The older American 16" battleships (South Dakota and Washington class) would have no more maintenance demands than the larger Iowa class, except as regards having smaller manning levels. This is all handled by SRs maintenance criteria, based on random know costs from historical research by some of its supporters (including self).

As for the really older ships, such as the remaining "slow battleships" (Tennessee, Maryland, Colorado, etc.), I would doubt that the rebuilt Tennessee / California cost any more than an Iowa to maintain, having been completely rebuilt in 1942-44 and with many of the same radars, fire control, etc. of their more modern "fast battleships" - but its worth researching and using.

The role for the U.S. "slow" battleships - and remember one (Mississippi) was converted as a test ship for Terrier SAM system -
would mostly be convoy protection and amphibious fire support in a general war....the same role they played from 1944 onward in WW2....in the event this dramatic even never occurred during the Cold War, they were eventually declared surplus to needs in 1960-62.

If I am playing the U.S. player, I would still not mind having them around for a couple decades, even if they require missile ship and submarine escorts, just as convoy's should have during the Cold War.

AND,

the engine doesn't really have a good way of upgrading ships yet

.....I doubt this very much, as other games have this feature incorporated.
One needs to begin with the premise that there is already an existing Unit in the inventory, then develop the parameters (time to rebuilt or upgrade, cost, new characteristics, etc.) that are all part of current Unit ratings.

That it has been done with so many other games, blaming the 'game engine' seem unfair to the game engine!

very well-informed post

the options you discuss for mid-life refits and combat systems updates are intriguing

[flashy]

It's all the more convenient when the SR system allows re-activation of a reserve unit on the same day you request it
[Boy, those Reservists are fast.... ]

i just assume that i'm declaring war/being attacked on a weekend

[Col_Travis]

Don't forget the Royal Navy, HMS Vanguard was a one of a kind ship, but four of the five King George V survived until 1957-58 and there were plans for a follow on design with the HMS Lion with 16" guns. The soviets were still constucting the Sovetsky Soyuz when Stallin died. I forgot the SMS Goeben/B70 Yavuz was scraped in 1973. Both French Richelieu's served until 1968 and scrapped in 1970. Italy's two Andria Doria's served until 1953 & 1956 before being scrapped.