Trade & Economics

[Hullu Hevonen]

Hi,

One thing that would be nice is removing the 10x price limits and advancing the trade system so that it will survive without limits. Also if the AI can build/demolish resource facils then this could help with turning the trade more realistically. If a country lowered its production of Consumer and Industrial goods, who requires other resources like electricity(which in turn requires other resources to be produced) and ore for eg. to function properly, then that would lower the need for other resources and there for effects the countries that trade the necessary resources. Reason for this could be eg. War, if eg. Germany would go to war with France, then Germany would have to recruit manpower(workforce) from it's reserves into the Army to fight France, when there is less work force contributing to the Economy, so is the GDP effected. Also, when Workforce is recruited, so also the amount of consumers buying consumer goods, the less consumer goods sold the less other resources will be needed for it's production etc.. This could potentially also effect other countries so badly that they get dragged into a depression, eg. if 90% of all ore produced in Luxembourg is sold to Germany, then if Germany is not anymore able to buy as much ore from Luxembourg, then that could cause problems for Luxembourg, they would have to find new trade partners or start producing something else to compensate.

One new feature I would want to se is some sort of logistics system, thinking in trade, this would mean transport of goods. One reason why Germany might be buying much of it's ore from Luxembourg is because it is so close, it would be much more expensive buying it's ore from eg. Russia, USA or China. But China could still be a cheaper way to go, if they had a lower ore price than Luxembourg that would push their total price lower than the Luxembourg price. Also Country of Orign taxes would also effect on the total price, sales tax on the transportation peace and Corporate tax on the Production peace. So I would calculate a total price following:
(I have the .xlsx file if needed)
Only the Production part(se the pic) would apply in internal trade(within Luxembourg), but when sold to a country outside luxemburg, then the Transportation cost would come into account. Also as a side note, this could also contribute to the Diplomatic engine, if Luxembourg and Germany sign a free trade agreement, then the profit part could be removed and if the also signed a free flow of workers, then that could remove the Cost/km and Length calculations(eg. because then Germany could provide the workforce for the transportation). the "Wanted profit" part is what Luxembourg wants in profits from the trade. All these figures are more or less fictional, but should help bring up my point.

Also the GDP could be somehow tied to the Base price, but I have not yet come up with a suggestion on how to do that.

[Hundane]

One new feature I would want to se is some sort of logistics system, thinking in trade, this would mean transport of goods.

That would be an awesome feature to include. Protectecting your supply routes through those regions would play into your strategy.

[George Geczy]

That would be an awesome feature to include. Protectecting your supply routes through those regions would play into your strategy.

This discussion has come up many times since Supreme Ruler 2010 even... the big problem here is that it adds a lot of complexity to the game, a lot of possible micro-management, and not a lot of game play benefit value.

Yes, there are situations where a naval blockade or siege would be cool, but having to manage literally thousands of resource supply convoys over land/air/sea would grow to be a big micro-management burden. Then there's also issues of the shipping methods, and who they are flagged with (third parties, etc). So for resources we generally have to consider worldwide merchant shipping to be "automatic".

-- George.

[Hundane]

Yes, there are situations where a naval blockade or siege would be cool, but having to manage literally thousands of resource supply convoys over land/air/sea would grow to be a big micro-management burden.

Wasnt really thinking of managing the actual supply routes but more the area or regions those supply routes would go through. If you were getting your petro from the middle east and and wars started in that area, it might disrupt your ability to get your petro.

[Hullu Hevonen]

Also, if someone attacks eg. Iraqs port and Air fields, then that would weaken their possibility of getting the Oil to you or if someone did that to you, then you might have a hard time resewing. Also bombarding border rodes could be a way to "blockade". There would not specifically need to be a "trade root", the Oil could go trough what ever nation via Land/Air/Sea transportation. So instead of trying to know the trade roots and blockading the oil trough measures eg. in Syria or Turkey, you could stop it before it leaves in the Country of origin by taking measures against their Ports/air field border rodes, eg. bombardment. You calculate the distance from capital to capital and ignore the 'trade roots'. Is my idea out of line?

[Eldin]

How about having a facility dedicated to allow you to trade with other countries? Trading ports, air cargo terminals and goods terminals for road\rail? Each facility could have the ability to export and import a given amount of goods and if you damage or destroy them then the target country would not be able to trade as much as he wanted on the world market.

[CrazyIvan]

How about having a facility dedicated to allow you to trade with other countries? Trading ports, air cargo terminals and goods terminals for road\rail? Each facility could have the ability to export and import a given amount of goods and if you damage or destroy them then the target country would not be able to trade as much as he wanted on the world market.

That sounds like a really good idea.

[Communazi]

on the topic of trade.

embargo's. sweet, sweet embargo's.

[SGTscuba]

How about having a facility dedicated to allow you to trade with other countries? Trading ports, air cargo terminals and goods terminals for road\rail? Each facility could have the ability to export and import a given amount of goods and if you damage or destroy them then the target country would not be able to trade as much as he wanted on the world market.

That sounds like a really good idea.

i'd vote for this too, its simple enough to not make the game laggy with many mechant ships, and not being to micromanagy at the same time, but with the ability to be resonably effective.

[tkobo]

I think id rather see a small amount of hexes per region that are considered "trade points" and control of those hexes being equal to control of the trade entering said particular region.

A building is too easy to destroy.Shipping routes fully expanded with ships sailing them too extreme.

BUT hexes on the map that one can assign ships to,that represent the flow of trade along a given route would allow enough difficulty in controlling trade via shipping,without making it too micro.

A player would simply sail his ships to that hex, and then using a new order,order them to interdict shipping.The ships then are removed from the map,and are considered moving back and forth along that particular shipping lane,and can be attacked by an enemy by having him move his ships to that hex and order them thru a new order to protect said shipping lanes.
At which time they are removed from the map and a system that acts as if a series of running battles takes place over time for control of that lane,takes over control of those ships,fight out the battles, and generates the adjustments to trade for that hex.

[Hundane]

I think id rather see a small amount of hexes per region that are considered "trade points" and control of those hexes being equal to control of the trade entering said particular region.

I like this idea. Controlling the main roads into or out of a region, controlling their seapiers and airfields would all play into this and basically allow you to "cut-off" a region from getting help from the outside world.

[Lightbringer]

I agree. I have seen this concept successfully used as far back as the old Avalon Hill board games. It allows you to invest/concentrate on protecting/disrupting shipping, without turning that aspect into it's own game.

-Light

[Justice]

I think id rather see a small amount of hexes per region that are considered "trade points" and control of those hexes being equal to control of the trade entering said particular region.

I like this idea. Controlling the main roads into or out of a region, controlling their seapiers and airfields would all play into this and basically allow you to "cut-off" a region from getting help from the outside world.

Embargoes and blockade seem good to me. Yes, please.

[The Khan]

Actually there is another issue not so much addressed.

I know Light has a heavy dislike for Communism and would insist it cannot be applied in a sustained system but:

First things first. Will there be one currency? Second, if so, how do you plan to show a closed and centralized system without it getting chewed by the West in the first few years?

Third, one of the U.S's main Cold War victories was keeping control of Middle East and OPEC and keeping oil prices by the dollar and quite low, so that Ruble would lose a very good opportunity to increase its price.

Since Cold War is also VERY dependent on oil control holding and research funding, the Soviets would be extremely handicapped in a basic computer game system. How will soviets fund R&D?

Also, do NOT put spies on game map as if they can be hunted down by regular units like Civ2, or I will kill you folks.

[BlackEagle]

Another question about economics, will we see a realistic economic growth, that wasn't assured in SR2020? How are you thinking to assure that? Just through math formulas or with several variables? Will we see elections in the countries that will allow different leaders, with different skills, to assume control of a country and lead it according its own caracteristics boosting or not the country and its growth?