32 Player world update
Moderators: Balthagor, Legend, Moderators
- George Geczy
- General
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- Location: BattleGoat Studios
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Though before people get too carried away about 64 regions, the limit for this time around is definitely 31 regions. As mentioned earlier, the game was designed for 16, and then "tweaked" for supporting 31 when I noticed that the data structures would support this number. However, this is the max for a lot of internal data structs, and so is the limit for the time being. 31 regions, up to 16 human in MP.
And that is still quite a number of regions, all told. The world may have 150+ countries in it, but most of them are (no offense to them) pretty useless from a world influence standpoint
Even the Europe 31-player testmap has a lot of weak regions - Estonia, Albania, Croatia, and so on. And, as mentioned, arranging a 16-player MP game can be very difficult, both for logistics (slow connections and disconnects, etc) and human reasons (people quitting, acting stupid, etc).
-- George.
And that is still quite a number of regions, all told. The world may have 150+ countries in it, but most of them are (no offense to them) pretty useless from a world influence standpoint
Even the Europe 31-player testmap has a lot of weak regions - Estonia, Albania, Croatia, and so on. And, as mentioned, arranging a 16-player MP game can be very difficult, both for logistics (slow connections and disconnects, etc) and human reasons (people quitting, acting stupid, etc).
-- George.
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- General
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- Location: UK
Still, 31 + WM will be a very interesting, fun game.
And without getting carried away it sounds like BG might develop the potential for 64 or more.
George
e.g does Russia throw its teddy in the corner for the loss of an 'on side' Lithuania.
Should a US risk a wider war by intervening in a small country.
Should China risk wider war for the small Spratly Islands with oil reserves. The same goes for European intervention in a war over Cyprus. etc.
And without getting carried away it sounds like BG might develop the potential for 64 or more.
George
True; but that does, in my opinion, pose its own grand strategic dilemas that would be great to model.The world may have 150+ countries in it, but most of them are (no offense to them) pretty useless from a world influence standpoint
e.g does Russia throw its teddy in the corner for the loss of an 'on side' Lithuania.
Should a US risk a wider war by intervening in a small country.
Should China risk wider war for the small Spratly Islands with oil reserves. The same goes for European intervention in a war over Cyprus. etc.
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- Sergeant
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Apr 10 2004
- Location: Australia
How much of the world map would be given to the WM? I can understand giving neutral countries (Switzerland, Uruguy etc) to the WM, as well as some small countries which would be more or less useless (Caribbean and Pacific islands, some of the smaller african and s american countries such as Bennin or guyana, and protectorates such as the Antartic), but putting much of a continent under WM control would be a huge disadvantage for other players in that region.
You could always group these smaller countries into their own common markets. Most are associated with regionalised free trade areas such as
ALADI - Latin American Integration Association
CACM - Central American Common Market
ASEAN - Association of South East Asian Nations
NATDA - North Asian Trade Development Association (S Korea,Japan, Taiwan)
ECOWAS - Economic Community of West African States
UDEAC - Customs and Economic Union of Central Africa
SADC - Southern African Development Community
PTA - Eastern African Preferential Trade Areas
CP - Colombo Plan (Sri Lanka, Burma, Bangladesh, Nepal, India)
SPF - South Pacific Forum
AL - Arab League
These are all real (one or two are completly defunct) and most are striving towards EU like trade areas sometime this century (whether it will happen is another story), ASEAN is the only one that definetly be completed by 2010.
I am against having too much WM in a World map, because on a world map, all the WM countries ARE involved allready. I would prefer some dubiously grouped African conglomerates than mostly WM continents.
That was a bit long winded, I guess that is what International Relations 392 will do to you.
You could always group these smaller countries into their own common markets. Most are associated with regionalised free trade areas such as
ALADI - Latin American Integration Association
CACM - Central American Common Market
ASEAN - Association of South East Asian Nations
NATDA - North Asian Trade Development Association (S Korea,Japan, Taiwan)
ECOWAS - Economic Community of West African States
UDEAC - Customs and Economic Union of Central Africa
SADC - Southern African Development Community
PTA - Eastern African Preferential Trade Areas
CP - Colombo Plan (Sri Lanka, Burma, Bangladesh, Nepal, India)
SPF - South Pacific Forum
AL - Arab League
These are all real (one or two are completly defunct) and most are striving towards EU like trade areas sometime this century (whether it will happen is another story), ASEAN is the only one that definetly be completed by 2010.
I am against having too much WM in a World map, because on a world map, all the WM countries ARE involved allready. I would prefer some dubiously grouped African conglomerates than mostly WM continents.
That was a bit long winded, I guess that is what International Relations 392 will do to you.
- Balthagor
- Supreme Ruler
- Posts: 22106
- Joined: Jun 04 2002
- Human: Yes
- Location: BattleGoat Studios
I don't know, I haven't thought about it much. Bring it up again after release. Maybe we'll give you the info and you can use the map editor and make it yourself then provide it back to the community since we will be making the scenario editor availableIceman wrote:How much of the world map would be given to the WM?
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- Sergeant
- Posts: 20
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- Location: Australia
- Balthagor
- Supreme Ruler
- Posts: 22106
- Joined: Jun 04 2002
- Human: Yes
- Location: BattleGoat Studios
Well, I doubt you could finish it in time. We've been working with the map editor for years and it is still taking us weeks to do the world map needed for the campaign. However, the map editor does make it possible to reuse existing maps so you'd want our finished world version as a template. Plus, we simply don't have the time right now to teach anyone how to use it
We will be counting on the community to help generate new maps post-release and I know that Son of Moose is already dying to get his hands on the map editor so you won't be the only one playing around with it when it's available.
We will be counting on the community to help generate new maps post-release and I know that Son of Moose is already dying to get his hands on the map editor so you won't be the only one playing around with it when it's available.
- Son of Moose
- Colonel
- Posts: 376
- Joined: May 19 2004
- Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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- General
- Posts: 1182
- Joined: Sep 23 2003
- Location: UK
George
1. rebelion in Kyrgyzstan, which is "of strategic importance to Russia and the United States, both of which have military bases in the country."
2. Venezuela which has 'vast oil reserves - the largest in the Americas -' giving it significant strategic importance. The country's leader appears to be courting closer ties to countries antagonistic towards the USA, while at the same time sabre rattleing towards the US. One UK newspaper quoted the leader's response to questions about Condoleezza Rice as being along the lines that he turned down her romantic requests.
Sadly issues such as these that rise partly because of a diverse world with so many governments will not be modeled by, in my opinion, the best game engine: SR2010. :(
Mabe with post release development
Yet another example of two small countries that could influence events on the world stage in the news this week:The world may have 150+ countries in it, but most of them are (no offense to them) pretty useless from a world influence standpoint
1. rebelion in Kyrgyzstan, which is "of strategic importance to Russia and the United States, both of which have military bases in the country."
2. Venezuela which has 'vast oil reserves - the largest in the Americas -' giving it significant strategic importance. The country's leader appears to be courting closer ties to countries antagonistic towards the USA, while at the same time sabre rattleing towards the US. One UK newspaper quoted the leader's response to questions about Condoleezza Rice as being along the lines that he turned down her romantic requests.
Sadly issues such as these that rise partly because of a diverse world with so many governments will not be modeled by, in my opinion, the best game engine: SR2010. :(
Mabe with post release development
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- Sergeant
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Apr 06 2005
- Location: Canada
Wise words ! I have read a lot in the forum in last 2 days, and i am really impress about the work here. Its nice to see game developpers working with a community, and actually listening. I am looking forward to put my hand on this baby, and have some MP game with you gents !Balthagor wrote:We will be counting on the community to help generate new maps post-release ...
- Son of Moose
- Colonel
- Posts: 376
- Joined: May 19 2004
- Location: Cape Town, South Africa
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- Brigadier Gen.
- Posts: 734
- Joined: May 18 2005
- Location: The Empire
16 people in a world map sounds like a pipe dream indeed.
However, 4 people is quite doable, and USA, Soviets, EU, and China make this quite a crazy scenario indeed.
Maybe have 5-6 if you are lucky and add in south american and african empires for the randomness of it.
Also, I hope we get a good Fortress America Scenario made, I always wanted to see that concept played out in a simulation.
However, 4 people is quite doable, and USA, Soviets, EU, and China make this quite a crazy scenario indeed.
Maybe have 5-6 if you are lucky and add in south american and african empires for the randomness of it.
Also, I hope we get a good Fortress America Scenario made, I always wanted to see that concept played out in a simulation.
- Legend
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- Lieutenant
- Posts: 53
- Joined: May 26 2005
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- Colonel
- Posts: 388
- Joined: May 28 2005
Actually, I'm building a map with 30 players.
However currently I'm using a different storyline, a ''WHAT IF'' storyline.
Currently in my map (wich will be released in 1 1/2 weeks from now) the soviet union is intact and has made enourmess achievements, because lenin didn't die and communisme thrived.
USA broke up in 3 regions because the civil war ended in a stalemate, USA (North East), Confederate states (South East) and the Independent States of America (West), Also canada's still in the game, (having some nice immigration and population growth)
Cube never became independent and is now part of the confederacy.
World war 1 and 2 never happened, Germany evolved in 1877 into a republic as otto von bismarck was assasinated and liberal republicans transformed the country into an economic powerhouse with later agreements with Austria-Hungary to include the czech under german rule, in return germany would ally and form the central alliance with austria-hungary, poland was later on conquered by the prussian armies of germany (germany then finally renamed itself into it's rightfull name; Deutchland) it counts an extremely large population nearing 200 million as populations rose thanks to increasing welfare and goverment subsidies to increase the deutch nation. Greece finally released from ottoman rule gained an economic boom and has taken the countries of albania, macedonia, bulgary (sp?), and the remaining part of romania, and also conquered back istanbul (now renamed constantinople).
In 1815, the netherlands broke up...but omg...in my game they didn't! in 1815 the republicans stayed in power, then later in 1846 everyone had the right to vote (except women ofcourse, they got that early 1900's) The netherlands now united (netherlands + belgium + luxumbourgh) quickly industrialised and capitalised on the massive growth in germany by using their ports to export german products.
Sweden never released control of norway and has taken control over finland through political ways (much like the EU is becoming now) and the entire scandinavian country is now united under sweden and is now respectively, the scandinavian union, or just scandinavian for short
France is still there, (although they still lost alsace-lorraine in 1877), spain and portugal allied just like scandinavia did and they have called them ''Iberia'' respectively as the region they reside on is called the iberan peninsula.
Zwitserland never was there since it was taken over by germany, france and itally respectively before it was able to unite.
The ottomans never broke up because there was no ww1, so the ottomans rule, turkey (minus istantbul), arabia and north africa, also the persian empire had a war with india (wich became independent) and conquered the region of pakistan, all muslims then went to pakistan to live there, so no more muslims in india lol
South-East Asia became heavily communist (the bad communisme) spreaded from Vietnam, as soon the entire area was communist and they all unificated and defeated malaysia in the south and finally defeat singapore.
Indonesia was still under dutch control, however it gained independence afterall and united with the entire oceanie to make sure they never became colonies again. Australia is also independent, having a similar liberal immigration policy like the USA had the country has grown quite large population wise.
Mongolia joined China, China in cooperation with the soviet union has increased its economy rapidly.
Japan was defeated by the chinese armies, a free korea was established and continued prosperely.
Central america allied, creating CAF, central american federation, consisting of mexico and all the central countries and the remaining countries in gulf.
South america diverted into 3 different countries, Brasilia as the central countries and brazil, Grand Colombia as the northern part, and argentine in the south.
Africa swore away from european dominance and became independent aswell, by forming huge african blocks they secured their position in the world, a formidable army has been assembled to battle the muslim threat from the ottoman empire to the north, the african continent now consists out of 4 major players, the ottoman empire in the regions above the sahara, west africa (niger and regions), central africa (congo and regions), south africa (south africa and regions)
Let´s see if I can get this out of the top of my mind
Canada
USA west (independent states)
USA north east (united states)
USA south east (confederate states)
CAF (central american federacy)
Grand Colombia
Brasilia
Argentine
Scandinavia
Great Britain
Netherlands
Deutchland
Iberia
France
Greece
Austria-Hungary
Italy
Soviet Union
China
South-East Asia
India
Japan
Korea
Persia
Ottoman Empire
West Africa
Central Africa
South Africa
Oceanie
Australia
I have 1 possible region left, I intend to keep it open for future map use so that other people can use this last region to customise any part other people want to. (for example, u want to split up one country in 2 so u can have a civil war, or perhaps u think that singapore needs a comeback, or well anything u like really )
Also I intend to use grouping for some nice alternative maps
When I finish this map I also intend to create a realistic world with 31 playable regions , but this map I´m primarely making for myself but u guys can use it aswell, I´ll release it soon though
However currently I'm using a different storyline, a ''WHAT IF'' storyline.
Currently in my map (wich will be released in 1 1/2 weeks from now) the soviet union is intact and has made enourmess achievements, because lenin didn't die and communisme thrived.
USA broke up in 3 regions because the civil war ended in a stalemate, USA (North East), Confederate states (South East) and the Independent States of America (West), Also canada's still in the game, (having some nice immigration and population growth)
Cube never became independent and is now part of the confederacy.
World war 1 and 2 never happened, Germany evolved in 1877 into a republic as otto von bismarck was assasinated and liberal republicans transformed the country into an economic powerhouse with later agreements with Austria-Hungary to include the czech under german rule, in return germany would ally and form the central alliance with austria-hungary, poland was later on conquered by the prussian armies of germany (germany then finally renamed itself into it's rightfull name; Deutchland) it counts an extremely large population nearing 200 million as populations rose thanks to increasing welfare and goverment subsidies to increase the deutch nation. Greece finally released from ottoman rule gained an economic boom and has taken the countries of albania, macedonia, bulgary (sp?), and the remaining part of romania, and also conquered back istanbul (now renamed constantinople).
In 1815, the netherlands broke up...but omg...in my game they didn't! in 1815 the republicans stayed in power, then later in 1846 everyone had the right to vote (except women ofcourse, they got that early 1900's) The netherlands now united (netherlands + belgium + luxumbourgh) quickly industrialised and capitalised on the massive growth in germany by using their ports to export german products.
Sweden never released control of norway and has taken control over finland through political ways (much like the EU is becoming now) and the entire scandinavian country is now united under sweden and is now respectively, the scandinavian union, or just scandinavian for short
France is still there, (although they still lost alsace-lorraine in 1877), spain and portugal allied just like scandinavia did and they have called them ''Iberia'' respectively as the region they reside on is called the iberan peninsula.
Zwitserland never was there since it was taken over by germany, france and itally respectively before it was able to unite.
The ottomans never broke up because there was no ww1, so the ottomans rule, turkey (minus istantbul), arabia and north africa, also the persian empire had a war with india (wich became independent) and conquered the region of pakistan, all muslims then went to pakistan to live there, so no more muslims in india lol
South-East Asia became heavily communist (the bad communisme) spreaded from Vietnam, as soon the entire area was communist and they all unificated and defeated malaysia in the south and finally defeat singapore.
Indonesia was still under dutch control, however it gained independence afterall and united with the entire oceanie to make sure they never became colonies again. Australia is also independent, having a similar liberal immigration policy like the USA had the country has grown quite large population wise.
Mongolia joined China, China in cooperation with the soviet union has increased its economy rapidly.
Japan was defeated by the chinese armies, a free korea was established and continued prosperely.
Central america allied, creating CAF, central american federation, consisting of mexico and all the central countries and the remaining countries in gulf.
South america diverted into 3 different countries, Brasilia as the central countries and brazil, Grand Colombia as the northern part, and argentine in the south.
Africa swore away from european dominance and became independent aswell, by forming huge african blocks they secured their position in the world, a formidable army has been assembled to battle the muslim threat from the ottoman empire to the north, the african continent now consists out of 4 major players, the ottoman empire in the regions above the sahara, west africa (niger and regions), central africa (congo and regions), south africa (south africa and regions)
Let´s see if I can get this out of the top of my mind
Canada
USA west (independent states)
USA north east (united states)
USA south east (confederate states)
CAF (central american federacy)
Grand Colombia
Brasilia
Argentine
Scandinavia
Great Britain
Netherlands
Deutchland
Iberia
France
Greece
Austria-Hungary
Italy
Soviet Union
China
South-East Asia
India
Japan
Korea
Persia
Ottoman Empire
West Africa
Central Africa
South Africa
Oceanie
Australia
I have 1 possible region left, I intend to keep it open for future map use so that other people can use this last region to customise any part other people want to. (for example, u want to split up one country in 2 so u can have a civil war, or perhaps u think that singapore needs a comeback, or well anything u like really )
Also I intend to use grouping for some nice alternative maps
When I finish this map I also intend to create a realistic world with 31 playable regions , but this map I´m primarely making for myself but u guys can use it aswell, I´ll release it soon though
Last edited by The_Blind_One on Oct 23 2005, edited 1 time in total.