Finnish-Russian Duel

[Hullu Hevonen]

I've(Finland) been dueleling Russia now for a half year and my forces are getting depleted or forced to repair. any hints on how to avoid annexion? due to repairing units I run low on military goods and my economy suffers, they refuse peace and i refuse peace if they have any of my territory!
Russian Causulties:
Civilian:~75-80,000
Military:~63,000
Causulties in units: 55 enemy units destroyed and 111 own unit destroyed
Other: lost the city of VYBORG(and surrounding area) due to 6 months heavy fighting and artillery duel, eventually resulting in thousands of russian civilian and military loss.

Finnish Causulties:
Civilian: ~5,000
Military: ~63,000
Causulties in units: 114(3 swedish frigates) enemy units destroyed and 58(1 Finnish sub, 2 PTG units) own unit destroyed
Other: a bunch of boder area have falen into the russian hands. Minor skirmishes whit sweden have occured, but not significant(caused few hundred causulties)

[GIJoe597]

Get as many aircraft as you can muster, beg, borrow or steal. Control the skies, decimate the ground forces. You should be able to hold out long enough to get some production running. Use any and all artillery to hold the line. Be cautious where you apply force, but when you do, use overwhelming force, or at least as much as you have.

It is much easier to defend than to attack. Place 7 Garrisons in every city and ENTRENCH every land unit you have.

Get allies, then bleed them, trade small quantities of anything for large quantities of cash. If you can afford it, purchase military techs that increase efficiency or boost soft/hard target defense. Do not forget about the techs that add range to artillery.


Other than that, sometimes you are the windshield, sometimes you are the bug.

[Ruges]

No way will he have enough time to get enough air assets. Your telling him todo what the germans tried todo. Which was build advanced weapons that could easily destroy the enemy. The problem with this, And the problem the Germans had was the units took so long to build, that they where getting destroyed faster then they where geting put out. Sure they where awsome units that easily destroyed the enemy, But the enemy just kept coming with more and more.

Basicaly what you have to look at in the way of Kills per production day. If you build 10 type A planes in 10 day, that destroy 5 enemy planes before they get destroyed. Vrs plane B that takes 10 days to build 1. that destroys 3 planes before it is destroyed. Plane A is going tobe better. Sure plane B is killing 3 for every 1 destroyed, And plane A is killing .5 for every 1 destroyed. But you are producing plane A 10 times faster. Meaning plane A is killing .5 per production day, and plane B is killing .3 per produciton day. Obviously making plane A is better. (beter in the sense it will win the war, although through heavier blood shed).

And I just dont see you being able to aford an airforce strong enough of keeping back Russia, They are just going to get shot down. Also you sound like you are on the loosing end right now not the advacing. So you need to stop that first. Russia is not going to send bombers, So you dont really need to worry about AA at first. As long as you dont have any birds in the air, Russia is not going ot send any towards you. So this leaves the ground. Again you are in a defensive stance so you need to defend against Russias advances. Russia loves sending waves of tanks. Dont fight thier tanks in open territory. Instead use infantry that have high close combat defense, and put them in the path of the Russian army in close combat hexes (use the map filter to see close combat and defensive terrian, put you forces there). Once you do this, you should be able to hold back the Russian advance. If you fail at this you loose. If you are succesful slowly move this format deeper into russian territory, being sure to grab a defensive hex before the next wave of units attacks you. Evenualy you are going to need to get some arty and AA in theback field, Along with supply trucks for those units (always have a supply truck withen one hex of your arty and AA).

[Cutlass]

Adding to what Ruges said, the Russian air force usually builds lots of air superiority fighters that it will use to shut down your tactical aircraft. They build air fabrication facilities at an alarming rate, and I seriously doubt that you will be able to beat them in the air. However, I have observed that they normally ignore helicopters that are used for transport purposes only.

Given that is the case, I would recommend that you take what air fabrication facilities you have and use them to produce transport helicopters. You can then have your land fabrication facilities devoted solely to producing whatever mix of mechanized infantry, self propelled artillery and tanks you think is best for your purposes. Producing trucks takes facilities that could be used to build combat units, so use your transport helicopters instead of trucks. Depending on the model chosen, helicopters can carry more cargo than trucks anyway.

You have not said what level of initiative that your forces are on. Ideally, you want your units to have "no" initiative, so that you are effectively controlling all their offensive moves except for opportunity fire. That's not as difficult as it sounds. Simply build stacks of mechanized infantry (preferably maxed out at 7 units per stack) and move them to where you want to have them sit in place, entrenched on the defensive. Have them backed up by 155mm or better heavy artillery. It's actually relatively easy to build a defensive line that the Russian (or any other AI) will nickle and dime units at all day long, losing them to no good purpose. Your mechanized infantry units entrenched on the defensive will slowly repair themselves through time. As time goes on and you get your line built up to the point that you're happy with it, you can start to slowly inch your line forward, a hex or two at a time.

Also, when and where applicable, make sure you build the logistics support facilities that you need. A properly set up supply network with good roads, railroads, and the right amount of barracks, airfields, and supply depots will both make things easier for you and harder on the Russians. The way that supply is handled in this game there is an extent to which the strength of your supply network can be an offensive weapon in its own right, or at the very least serve to help limit enemy incursions into your area of operations.

[GIJoe597]

No way will he have enough time to get enough air assets. Your telling him todo what the germans tried todo. Which was build advanced weapons that could easily destroy the enemy.

You assume to much, no where did I type for him to purchase the highest tech or advanced planes in game. Simple Fighter Bombers will suffice. Yes Russia has many planes but seldom uses them other than in 1's or 3's on the offense. The basic game, or GC tends to work like this.

Just a few anti air craft units can also make a huge difference when concentrated in small areas.

Not everyone is playing with a mod. Not everyone builds 1000's of units to simply overwhelm the enemy. In my experience playing the game, 1 stack of interceptors and 1 stack of fighter bombers work for me. Granted everyone has different play styles, but by and large all games are the same, survive the initial rush and you can then take your time to build your forces.

For defense, especially close in, air frames are excellent, And they do not have to be top of the line, since you will only be using them in very close proximity to your bases/forces. I do very well with smaller countries that only have access to older airframes, such as the F-5A Freedom Fighter (1963). Very seldom will any AI send Air patrols to sweep inside your territory in any kind of numbers.

But of course, as with anything, you will have different opinions on how to play this game.

[Ragu]

Use the terrain to your advantage, if that means a strategic withdrawl to a position of better defence, then do it. You can always re-capture lost lands later.

Always fight the Russians on your terms, not thiers. Use light fast units to draw the Russian tanks to fight you at your well defended territiory (river crossings are nice for this, easy to thin their ranks and fast), then use something like light amphibous tanks to cross the rivers loewr down, and flank to the rear of them cutting off their supply's. We all know tanks use supplys at an unreal speed, so flanking them with light fast units to then pick the loose stragglers off is a fast way of totally destroying a lot of enemy tanks, without the chance of them repairing them.

Drawing wave after wave of Russian armour onto your line of defence will buy you the time needed to build up your military for deep thrusting manovours into Russian territory.
Always use diversions to draw Russian strength away from where your main attack will be. Always advance on many fronts, but make sure you draw their strength to your heavy defense lines (trap) and then thrust elsewhere.

As for aircraft, forget them against russia, use a few patriot AA instaead (as they have high altitue capabilities against the Russian MiG25p-Foxbat).

Unless you have a shitstorm of BVR-capable aircraft and good spotters, I would'nt bother using them against Russia, its a sure-fire way of having an ungodly amount of fighter-bombers killing your infantry.

Ive defeated Russia many times, and ive never done it with air-support. This is by trying before and it ending in huge military losses for me, so ive never done it since.

Infantry
Tanks(not-too many as Russia has crap supply in most of it)
mobile AA
Long range arty(Good for picking off the huge blobs of troops sat around their barracks/land-fabs)
Supply trucks
And use your spies as tactical spotters for your arty/land based missiles for destroying their Barracks.

[Ruges]

Yes Russia has many planes but seldom uses them other than in 1's or 3's on the offense. The basic game, or GC tends to work like this.

yea it works like that after you destroy the initial wave or two. Hop on as ukraine one day and go after Russia. At first when Russia can easily destroy your airforce, and they can easily keep thier air assets in the air, they will use them. Exspecialy anytime you have air assets in the air. And since Russia has high air units, it is tuff to destroy them. its allot like ground battles, After you win a couple battles and bloody thier nose it slows down to 1 or 2 units every now and then.

[Hullu Hevonen]

Nations in war whit. After Dowing Estonia and Denmark, this happened ^^ . No real engagement took place except a bunch of Ukrainian AA & Artillery units landing in Helsinki Land/Naval base, thus almost giving me a heart attack!(It is good that AA/Artillery can't capture land). the Ukrainians made a week later(17 july 2021) a new invasion attempt, but this one I prepared for... guess what happened?...I blew up the transport ship so we will never know what they would of landed.


Expansion. Norway dowed me also, and no major engagement here either. Thou there was a small duel between 2 XA-186(the Norwegian one was winning, but retreated before killing my unit)

Russian Causulties:
Civilian:~83,000
Military:~96,000
Other: some sea warfare whit Canada(ally) and Australia. 80/193 Unit Kills/Losses

Finnish Causulties:
Civilian: ~5,000
Military: ~91,500
Other: Some more minor conflict whit Sweden(ally ). 210/85 Unit Kills/Losses
(EDIT)Situation: borders stabilized. Major Fighting ended after 6.5 months (august 2020) in the Vyborg area. 13 months (march 2021) in game Russia Launches an surprise(provoked by the Finns attempt to take Alakurtti Airbase) invasion from direction Alakurtti air base. Whit little resistance they easily invade northern Lapland and isolates Rovaniemi, Heavy Fighting occur. Lapland is re-liberated into Finland January 2022.

Equipment:
I bought Boxer MRAV Unit from the dutch, that by the way dowed me later on. Then the PLZ-202 Feric air plane got researched and I started building them.
2 research centers have been built in Nokia, Pargas-Kaarina and 1 more is being built in an abandoned town called Vyborg.
1 Intelligence academy is also being re-situated
2 naval-, 1 air-, 1 land fabrication have been built + 1 air fabrication is being built

[Hullu Hevonen]

Adding to what Ruges said, the Russian air force usually builds lots of air superiority fighters that it will use to shut down your tactical aircraft. They build air fabrication facilities at an alarming rate, and I seriously doubt that you will be able to beat them in the air. However, I have observed that they normally ignore helicopters that are used for transport purposes only.

Given that is the case, I would recommend that you take what air fabrication facilities you have and use them to produce transport helicopters. You can then have your land fabrication facilities devoted solely to producing whatever mix of mechanized infantry, self propelled artillery and tanks you think is best for your purposes. Producing trucks takes facilities that could be used to build combat units, so use your transport helicopters instead of trucks. Depending on the model chosen, helicopters can carry more cargo than trucks anyway.

You have not said what level of initiative that your forces are on. Ideally, you want your units to have "no" initiative, so that you are effectively controlling all their offensive moves except for opportunity fire. That's not as difficult as it sounds. Simply build stacks of mechanized infantry (preferably maxed out at 7 units per stack) and move them to where you want to have them sit in place, entrenched on the defensive. Have them backed up by 155mm or better heavy artillery. It's actually relatively easy to build a defensive line that the Russian (or any other AI) will nickle and dime units at all day long, losing them to no good purpose. Your mechanized infantry units entrenched on the defensive will slowly repair themselves through time. As time goes on and you get your line built up to the point that you're happy with it, you can start to slowly inch your line forward, a hex or two at a time.

Also, when and where applicable, make sure you build the logistics support facilities that you need. A properly set up supply network with good roads, railroads, and the right amount of barracks, airfields, and supply depots will both make things easier for you and harder on the Russians. The way that supply is handled in this game there is an extent to which the strength of your supply network can be an offensive weapon in its own right, or at the very least serve to help limit enemy incursions into your area of operations.

They have alot of Airforce and have/are expanding their capabilities to build air planes. I don't see the point of having transport helicopters build, I would most likely sell them for profit. I have expanded my road network, significantly in northern parts due to have lost large parts of the area and having to re-conquer it. my Defcon is on level 3 since Finland can't afford more

No way will he have enough time to get enough air assets. Your telling him todo what the germans tried todo. Which was build advanced weapons that could easily destroy the enemy.

You assume to much, no where did I type for him to purchase the highest tech or advanced planes in game. Simple Fighter Bombers will suffice. Yes Russia has many planes but seldom uses them other than in 1's or 3's on the offense. The basic game, or GC tends to work like this.

Just a few anti air craft units can also make a huge difference when concentrated in small areas.

Not everyone is playing with a mod. Not everyone builds 1000's of units to simply overwhelm the enemy. In my experience playing the game, 1 stack of interceptors and 1 stack of fighter bombers work for me. Granted everyone has different play styles, but by and large all games are the same, survive the initial rush and you can then take your time to build your forces.

For defense, especially close in, air frames are excellent, And they do not have to be top of the line, since you will only be using them in very close proximity to your bases/forces. I do very well with smaller countries that only have access to older airframes, such as the F-5A Freedom Fighter (1963). Very seldom will any AI send Air patrols to sweep inside your territory in any kind of numbers.

But of course, as with anything, you will have different opinions on how to play this game.

Your right about those AA units making a difference, but when they use air crafts it's not only 1's or 3's, they number in tens. there fore I've grounded/repairing the Remaining Finnish air force and use them only in finnish air space. they seldom though attack in large numbers unprovoked.

Use the terrain to your advantage, if that means a strategic withdrawl to a position of better defence, then do it. You can always re-capture lost lands later.

Always fight the Russians on your terms, not thiers. Use light fast units to draw the Russian tanks to fight you at your well defended territiory (river crossings are nice for this, easy to thin their ranks and fast), then use something like light amphibous tanks to cross the rivers loewr down, and flank to the rear of them cutting off their supply's. We all know tanks use supplys at an unreal speed, so flanking them with light fast units to then pick the loose stragglers off is a fast way of totally destroying a lot of enemy tanks, without the chance of them repairing them.

Drawing wave after wave of Russian armour onto your line of defence will buy you the time needed to build up your military for deep thrusting manovours into Russian territory.
Always use diversions to draw Russian strength away from where your main attack will be. Always advance on many fronts, but make sure you draw their strength to your heavy defense lines (trap) and then thrust elsewhere.

As for aircraft, forget them against russia, use a few patriot AA instaead (as they have high altitue capabilities against the Russian MiG25p-Foxbat).

Unless you have a shitstorm of BVR-capable aircraft and good spotters, I would'nt bother using them against Russia, its a sure-fire way of having an ungodly amount of fighter-bombers killing your infantry.

Ive defeated Russia many times, and ive never done it with air-support. This is by trying before and it ending in huge military losses for me, so ive never done it since.

Infantry
Tanks(not-too many as Russia has crap supply in most of it)
mobile AA
Long range arty(Good for picking off the huge blobs of troops sat around their barracks/land-fabs)
Supply trucks
And use your spies as tactical spotters for your arty/land based missiles for destroying their Barracks.

thats an excellent idea and I personally also use the same tactics. Long range arty is pretty much of limits since there is no cheap one (whitout additional techs that i haven't researched )

[GIJoe597]

Your right about those AA units making a difference, but when they use air crafts it's not only 1's or 3's, they number in tens. there fore I've grounded/repairing the Remaining Finnish air force and use them only in finnish air space. they seldom though attack in large numbers unprovoked.

I am pleased to read you seem to have been able to stem the tide. Using bits and pieces from what we all posted to form a style/system that works for you will be best. In my last game I was able to take out China and Russia as The Philippines. There were many stressful times, but of course that makes the best games

When you can steam roll over everyone it takes the "fun" factor out of the game for me.


For a change of pace I started my current game as Venezuela and it has been very interesting. Especially since France declared on me and has so far conducted 3 amphibious assaults.

[Cutlass]

They have alot of Airforce and have/are expanding their capabilities to build air planes. I don't see the point of having transport helicopters build, I would most likely sell them for profit. I have expanded my road network, significantly in northern parts due to have lost large parts of the area and having to re-conquer it. my Defcon is on level 3 since Finland can't afford more

If you have cargo carrying units within one hex of your artillery, your artillery will be able to fire/reload faster. The two most basic cargo carrying units for use on land are trucks and transport helicopters. Normally I produce far more transport helicopters than I do trucks as the helicopters are more versatile. The only advantage that I see trucks having is that they can "entrench" and thus take cover in fortifications when you are using them as part of a garrison force which includes heavy artillery and mechanized infantry.

In my most recent set of games I have found that by taking control of all my units as I described in my previous post it is possible to successfully fight entire wars in DEFCON 3 while still having a kill/loss ratio of 20 or more to one in my favor. A good line of mechanized infantry units backed up by decent heavy artillery is the key to that. The two technologies of ERFB-BB Ammunition and V-LAP Artillery can be a great help to you.

[Hullu Hevonen]

They have alot of Airforce and have/are expanding their capabilities to build air planes. I don't see the point of having transport helicopters build, I would most likely sell them for profit. I have expanded my road network, significantly in northern parts due to have lost large parts of the area and having to re-conquer it. my Defcon is on level 3 since Finland can't afford more

If you have cargo carrying units within one hex of your artillery, your artillery will be able to fire/reload faster. The two most basic cargo carrying units for use on land are trucks and transport helicopters. Normally I produce far more transport helicopters than I do trucks as the helicopters are more versatile. The only advantage that I see trucks having is that they can "entrench" and thus take cover in fortifications when you are using them as part of a garrison force which includes heavy artillery and mechanized infantry.

In my most recent set of games I have found that by taking control of all my units as I described in my previous post it is possible to successfully fight entire wars in DEFCON 3 while still having a kill/loss ratio of 20 or more to one in my favor. A good line of mechanized infantry units backed up by decent heavy artillery is the key to that. The two technologies of ERFB-BB Ammunition and V-LAP Artillery can be a great help to you.

I'm researching ERFB-BB & V-Lap already. Next i'm going for the invasion of north-western Russia. Taking St.Petersburg whit out a massive bloodbath will most likely be impossible

[GIJoe597]

If you plan on using cargo helos, you might want to try the Merge Units function. In games where I am allowed to purchase designs from Russia or China I will use the Mi-6 Hook early on. It has a base cargo capacity of 480 t. With Split and Merge you can get it to 840 t.

Same thing with the AN-225 Cossack, base capacity of 3000 t, you can get it to 5250 t.

[Icedeathboy]

Are you ally with the sweds or? You said something about a conflict.
If you are allied with em, are they helping you?

I always allied with Denmark and Finland when i play as sweden, but when i get dowed from Norway i get no help from Finland or Denmark despite i have Mutal Defense with em and all treities!

[Vuk-Wolf]

Only way u survive unharmed is to be allied with poland ukraine and other russians neibhours that will declare war on russia if russia attacks u and then russia is concetrated on ukraine and poland mainly. If u wanna get out of war just declare war on china (russia is in war with china ussually) so CB of russia lowers from u and ur diplomatic relation go up.