sysnthetic fuel plants

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konan
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sysnthetic fuel plants

Post by konan »

Scenario: europe
player: germany

.... :P .... wow just researched them and i'm building the first 2, i'm nearly to be self sufficient on petrol ....!!!

soon will post impression, positive and negative aspects ....

..meanwhile .. add your impressions about! 8O
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bergsjaeger
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Post by bergsjaeger »

:lol: I usually build 5 at one time when I get them. I have had at one time over 50 :o . I was selling over 3T barrels a day and that was on 20% production. :lol: The funny thing is the WM could only sell around 3B a day. I was out pricing the WM and selling a whole lot more at one time. I have sold one time fuel that got me over 30B and another time over 40B. :lol: my whole economy was based off the selling of the oil.
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Post by kender »

this technology is too much efficient. You could built it everywhere and you could replace all your production and importation by a small number.

I dont know exactly their cost but it is too useful.
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Sebastiaan
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Post by Sebastiaan »

I'm ready wondering on which "real world" technology this building this is based on. When I think at syntatic fuel, I think at hydrogion fuel production. This is currently the only viable future syntatic fuel technology which can replace oil as a energy carrier. However in contrast to real hydrogion production, this syntatic fuel production does not require power which far from the Truth. This is unfortunalty very far for the truth because it requires a LOT of electricy. That's because Hydrogion is created by electrolise by splitting Water into Hydrogion and Oxygion.

I would rather like to have seen that there was one adition resource called "fuel". Population should require fuel (for transportation) instead of crude oil, and the Militairy should requere fuel, to refuel the vehicals (sound logical doesn't it?). Besides the "Fuel" resource, Civilian should still use Oil directly to represent their natrual Gas usage.

To make the economic model more realistic we should have
a special industrial type called "Oil Refinery" which converts crude oil/gas into fuel. Instead of oil, syntetic fuel industry should produce as the name sais , "fuel" from electricity. We also need an aditional industry called Syntatic Coal industry. This Dutch (Shell) technology, which realy already exist and used, can convert Biomass (=Food) into a synatic Coal, Which can then be used for energy Production. THis would allow countries with very little coal production, but lots of architectual capacity to create coal syntaticly from Biomass (=Food).
not going forward eqeals to going backward
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Post by Seydlitz »

I read a very interesting article a couple years ago about a machine that is able to turn almost anything into oil. It does this basically by simulating the natural processes that create oil (heat and high pressure) inside a machine. They have a couple small plants around the US, the largest one being used to convert poultry production waste products into oil (Con-Agra owns it, I think). This is what I've always assumed to be at least part of the "synthetic fuel" in SR. As Sebastiaan points out, this process is extremely energy-intensive.
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

I never did hear anything after the initial "hype" about that though.

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/4/24/02152/3927

We talked about it on the forum here a couple of years ago,but i cant find the post.
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Post by Phoenix »

It works alright, but currently costs about 80$ a barrel t produce petroleum.

Too expensive now but in a few decades might be worth it.
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

Got any links with more info ?

Id be very damn curious to see how they arrive at that production cost.

Id especially like to see if they factor in the money they would make by collecting the garbage that would be used to produce the oil.

Trash, garbage disposal,hazardess waste collection, etc... is a huge money maker.
And if this is the kind of "resource" they would be using to produce the oil,they could clearly make money on both ends of the process.

In other words, they could become trash collectors and charge to remove the trash (like many many many companies already do) and than process that same trash into oil ,whihc they would than also sell.

It sounds like a flawless win win situation(economically)for the company in a consumer driven world.
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red
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Post by red »

Here's an article about coal to synthetic fuel, $7bn facility for 150,000 barrels a day at $35 per they say: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/21/national/21coal.html
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Post by moondrift »

there is also an article in the hindustan times which talks about shell setting up factories in east germany to produce Biomass to Liquid diesel. This utilises all types of biomass, agricultural residue, wood and other organics.




www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1496266,0046.htm
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

Thanks ,interesting reads.

Although coal itself is finite resource it could well be used to stretch out and fill gaps of other energy sources.

Eespecially at $35 a barrel.
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Post by Seydlitz »

This is from the original article. If any of you are Discover magazine subscribers, you can get the full article here: https://www.discover.com/issues/may-03/ ... s/featoil/

Chemistry, not alchemy, turns (A) turkey offal—guts, skin, bones, fat, blood, and feathers—into a variety of useful products. After the first-stage heat-and-pressure reaction, fats, proteins, and carbohydrates break down into (B) carboxylic oil, which is composed of fatty acids, carbohydrates, and amino acids. The second-stage reaction strips off the fatty acids' carboxyl group (a carbon atom, two oxygen atoms, and a hydrogen atom) and breaks the remaining hydrocarbon chains into smaller fragments, yielding (C) a light oil. This oil can be used as is, or further distilled (using a larger version of the bench-top distiller in the background) into lighter fuels such as (D) naphtha, (E) gasoline, and (F) kerosene. The process also yields (G) fertilizer-grade minerals derived mostly from bones and (H) industrially useful carbon black.

Feedstock is funneled into a grinder and mixed with water to create a slurry that is pumped into the first-stage reactor, where heat and pressure partially break apart long molecular chains. The resulting organic soup flows into a flash vessel where pressure drops dramatically, liberating some of the water, which returns back upstream to preheat the flow into the first-stage reactor. In the second-stage reactor, the remaining organic material is subjected to more intense heat, continuing the breakup of molecular chains. The resulting hot vapor then goes into vertical distillation tanks, which separate it into gases, light oils, heavy oils, water, and solid carbon. The gases are burned on-site to make heat to power the process, and the water, which is pathogen free, goes to a municipal waste plant. The oils and carbon are deposited in storage tanks, ready for sale.

They did a follow up article about a year later, and the ConAgra guys seemed pretty happy. :-)
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haenkie
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Post by haenkie »

In parts of this world (Scnadinavia foremost) they use biodiesel extenisvely.

In Brazil they use alcohol for fuel.

There is a heated discussion in the EU to use more biomass for vehicles.
But the process of implementing is slow, even with the goal to reach 10 or 12% of total energy use with renewable energy around 2010 or something.

But in the USA there is no discussion at all, thanks to Bush. It hurts the ecnomony inb the short run. But not using this kind of energy will kill as all in the long run.

I think Bush wants to kill the world perhaps. But thats not for this forums, sorry.
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tkobo
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Post by tkobo »

haenkie- why is it you cant exert enough control over yourself to NOT make poltical bashing statements like that ?

You know they lead to "nasty" derailed threads, please stop.
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Post by Balthagor »

He already mentioned "...But thats not for this forums, sorry" so I doubt that discussion will continue.
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