Ruges MOD (normal build times and buildings version)

[Nekkewgazt]

I support this too, I think the increased building time ruined the entire mod and all those other ridiculous add-ins. Once you release the extra version, I will make sure to download- but for now, no.

You're not making a good first impression to call someone else's donated work "ridiculous" as your first post on the forum. The rule on this forum is to be polite and Ruges' contributions deserve recognition even if you disagree with his design. This isn't intended as a reprimand but to call out very bad form. Tsk tsk.

I didn't state the entire mod was ridiculous, it was just those few things. The rest of the mod is amazingly magnificent, I love it and want to use it. It's just those few add-ins he put in kind of ruined the mod. Don't get me wrong, I thank him for his contribution, it's amazing.

[shaq]

I think the research centers need to be rebalanced for sure. I captured Algeria and they were building a satellite launch pad in 2023. Too many countries also have 1+ trillion dollars in their treasury in 2023. All in all it is a very good improvement it only needs more balancing. I'm not sure why countries go passive so much at times. Russia hasn't done anything in 6+ months. It seems most countries only attack on their borders. One consequence of the fewer alliances in the mod is apparantly less transport treaties so countries are reluctant to cross countries to invade. I would like see countries attacking more and allying when they are overwhelmed. Why does South Africa roll unopposed? Surely countries would go on the offensive before SA owns half the continent. I imagine it is difficult to get everything right though. I would like to see that fabrication check expanded. Currently it is only the top fab country that gets hurt relations. It should be the top on each continent/region.

[Chauncey]

I would too would like to see the Ruges mod with normal build times. I've enjoyed the mod thoroughly and I think this would be an interesting twist on it, especially for players with less time to play. Thanks for all of the good work though Ruges.

[Felius]

A bit of a ressurrection, but I as well suppport a Ruges Mod with the standard building time.

[Felius]

A bit of necromancy (again), but any word on the possibility of a release with normal building times? Or alternatively a mini tutorial/how to change that myself?

[Ruges]

Chances of me making a faster build time for the mod are pretty slim. Does not fit in my "vision" of the game.

[dgharis]

Chances of me making a faster build time for the mod are pretty slim. Does not fit in my "vision" of the game.

While I agree that longer build times are more realistic, more realism is not always desirable. This is a game first and a simulation second; if you want your mod to be used and appreciated then it has to offer an enjoyable experience. Having to wait hours of real time for a single nuclear reactor or aircraft factory to be finished is simply not enjoyable for most gamers.

I suggest making longer build times optional; offer players a choice rather than forcing your "vision" on them. The easy way would be to add duplicate GC files with normal build times to the download and have the player install whichever ones he prefers.

On the subject of longer build times, the mod as it stands is unbalanced; while facilities have more realistic build times units do not. If you were going for realism unit build times should have been doubled or tripled in most cases; fielding a fully trained tank battalion in three months is a stretch and fielding a fully trained fighter squadron in four months is laughable; a year is more like it. This would force the AI and players to be much more circumspect about committing troops to combat when there is a good possibility of them being destroyed, since replacement units would be much scarcer. I would suggest this as an option for the players as well, to be included with the longer facility build times option.

All that said, your mod is still a marvelous improvement to the original excellent game; kudos to you for your efforts.

[Ruges]

I defenatly love the idea about being fearful of sending troops into combat in fear of loosing exsperienced troops. When you look back in history many wars have run into these issues. Not wanting to send pilots on sucicide missions becouse, while they had more planes to send at them they did not have the pilots. Or having to change tank designs, becouse they did not have the exsperienced manpower to operate them.

I think there is an idea here that could be applied to future SR games. Currently we have a pool of manpower. and every unit just grabs the manpower it needs from this pool. What if this pool was broken down to unit types. While you still have your main manpower pool which would be considered the infantry pool, They could then further be trained to be in the pool for Tanks, Artilary, Land Recon, Land transport, AA, AT, Fighter, helicopter, Fighter-bomber, Air recon.......Destroyers, carriers, subs..... basiacly have a pool for each unit type. So if you want to deploy a sub that requires 60 personel, you must have atleast 60 manpower saved up in the sub pool.

Would defenatly add a new layer of stratagy to the game. And it sounds like a rather simple feature to add in by BG (this is not somthing modable). Although this is a calculation that would need to be made for every country I wonder what type of performance hit it would give.

I am even more convinced now, that I am happy with the current speeds. I have played several games and have not had any issues with the build times, Sure I have had to adjust my stratagy to it. And there are several countries out there, that are an absolute pain to play now becouse you are generaly at war very early in the game and you tend to have to use the units you have. And then as far as the economy is, if you mess up and build to many production plants then you have power for, its going to be awhile before you are self sufficient again. (although, you could also build smaller ones assisted by enginiers and have them completed in a months time).

I really need to make that I win mod thow. Basicaly I want to make it so once the game starts a window pops up with a button in the middle of it that says I win. And when the player pushes the button the game ends with the win screen and the player winning the game and telling him how good of a job he did. I'll even put a timer on it so if the button is to hard to press, when the time runs out the player still wins.

[dgharis]

While I understand your preference for longer build times, and am not necessarily opposed to the idea, I believe it to be a mistake on your part to force that on the player. Not everyone has the amount of time to devote to the game that would be required in that case and your choice will drive potential players away, which is a shame given the amount of effort you have put into it and the otherwise excellent mod you have created.

As I said, if you offered both increased and normal build times as separate files and let the players choose which to install your mod would be much more widely used and appreciated. Who knows, you might even get paid to do something similar someday ...

Historical examples of militaries suffering a decline in quality due to the early loss of most of their experienced personnel abound; the British Army in WWI, the Japanese Naval Air Arm in WWII, and the French Army in the Napoleonic wars come to mind. With longer unit build times and consequently lower replacement rates the AI will have to drastically increase its unit production to compensate, or drastically slow down the pace of combat, assuming that's possible, or see its military decimated in short order. An interesting dilemma.

An I WIN mod; I like that. Good for the occasions when I totally muck things up and am getting my butt kicked.

[Fistalis]

Your vision is wrong. You should spend your free time making what other people want, not the mod that you would enjoy playing, or at the very least redo half your work and release it as an alternative.


Why do we share our mods again?

[dgharis]

Your vision is wrong. You should spend your free time making what other people want, not the mod that you would enjoy playing, or at the very least redo half your work and release it as an alternative.


Why do we share our mods again?

That's undiplomatic, to say the least. Remember that part of the reason we make mods is for our own enjoyment, since we are not paid to do so. You are telling him to devote several hours of his time to creating something he does not feel to be right for no compensation other than our praise. That's a lot to ask, and I can understand his reluctance.

While your point is valid, phrasing it so bluntly is not likely to produce a positive response. A more tactful approach will serve you better, if you truly wish him to do as you desire.

[Fistalis]

Your vision is wrong. You should spend your free time making what other people want, not the mod that you would enjoy playing, or at the very least redo half your work and release it as an alternative.


Why do we share our mods again?

That's undiplomatic, to say the least. Remember that part of the reason we make mods is for our own enjoyment, since we are not paid to do so. You are telling him to devote several hours of his time to creating something he does not feel to be right for no compensation other than our praise. That's a lot to ask, and I can understand his reluctance.

While your point is valid, phrasing it so bluntly is not likely to produce a positive response. A more tactful approach will serve you better, if you truly wish him to do as you desire.

I was just paraphrasing what you said. I thought you all should see how unreasonable you are being. Sarcasm I suppose was lost on you..

(FYI if i want to mold a mod to a specific vision I'll do it myself rather than expect someone else to change their work to fit my vision.)

[dgharis]

Your vision is wrong. You should spend your free time making what other people want, not the mod that you would enjoy playing, or at the very least redo half your work and release it as an alternative.


Why do we share our mods again?

That's undiplomatic, to say the least. Remember that part of the reason we make mods is for our own enjoyment, since we are not paid to do so. You are telling him to devote several hours of his time to creating something he does not feel to be right for no compensation other than our praise. That's a lot to ask, and I can understand his reluctance.

While your point is valid, phrasing it so bluntly is not likely to produce a positive response. A more tactful approach will serve you better, if you truly wish him to do as you desire.

I was just paraphrasing what you said. I thought you all should see how unreasonable you are being. Sarcasm I suppose was lost on you..

(FYI if i want to mold a mod to a specific vision I'll do it myself rather than expect someone else to change their work to fit my vision.)

Am I being unreasonable in pointing out that his choice is likely to drive players away from using his mod rather than attracting them to it? I don't think so. Following my suggestion means several hours of work and some additional files and instructions in his upload and will satisfy the desires of the players who like his mod but would rather have the standard build times so as not to further lengthen what is already a very lengthy game. If he chooses to do so, great; if not, disappointing, but not the end of the world.

For the record, I am NOT demanding that you, or he, or anyone else create mods which conform to my vision. I am merely pointing out that his choice will be detrimental to his objective of having others use his mod, which is the reason for sharing it, BTW. As for doing the work myself, yes, I could, but it would be more likely to be done correctly if he does it, since he is more familiar with it than I am. And I am not at all sure he would welcome someone else mucking around with something he spent so much time and effort on.

[Balthagor]

...his choice is likely to drive players away from using his mod...

As Ruges mod is THE most played mod of SR2020, there is little empirical evidence to support your statement. Have you taken a poll to see how many players want long vs. short build times?

...will be detrimental to his objective of having others use his mod...

I've seen no evidence to support this statement either. I've been under the impression that Ruges motivation in making this mod was to play it himself. That he was simply being thoughtful in sharing it with the community and gaining testers by sharing.

You do have the right to suggest anything to like to the modders but if you've misunderstood their motivations then your arguments will do little to affect them.

[dgharis]

...his choice is likely to drive players away from using his mod...

As Ruges mod is THE most played mod of SR2020, there is little empirical evidence to support your statement. Have you taken a poll to see how many players want long vs. short build times?

...will be detrimental to his objective of having others use his mod...

I've seen no evidence to support this statement either. I've been under the impression that Ruges motivation in making this mod was to play it himself. That he was simply being thoughtful in sharing it with the community and gaining testers by sharing.

You do have the right to suggest anything to like to the modders but if you've misunderstood their motivations then your arguments will do little to affect them.

I didn't say that no one would play his mod; obviously that's untrue. What I did say is that more people would play it if offered the choice of normal build times rather than being forced to accept lengthier build times to get the rest of his excellent mod. Choice is always better. And while it's true that our primary reason for making mods is for our own enjoyment, it's not just about us, is it?

I made a suggestion to Ruges that he offer the player a choice between normal and lengthier build times in the belief that that course of action would improve his mod. If he takes my suggestion, great. If not, no problem.