Ruges GC Mod (5.08(11-2-13))

[Bommelino]

If somone wants to translate a bunch of text for me I could create the proper language files for each language.

I can translate it for the german version if you want so..

[catatonic]

Playing SR2020-GC with Ruges 3.38
Playing as the USA

I have tried to move my SSBN-726 subs from US waters towards South America and Europe and have noticed that they will either remain at the base in which they were pulled out of reserve or "magically" appear at another location but still in US waters. After giving them a move order they will sometimes refuse the order all together. The subs will launch missiles but will not move.

I have not done anything to warrant the military to refuse orders.

Has anyone else experienced this?

Ships that are low on "Supplies" (ammunition) will stop taking orders and head for their home ports. This is very strange, since SR2020 units are officialy not suppose to have "home" ports or bases. I have seen and reported this behavior in the DDG-1000 Zumwalt, the BB-61 Iowa, DD-310 and CG-90:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 49&t=15427

I tested your SSBN-726 Ohio-class sub. When it is first deployed it contains 34 tons of "Supplies". When it is loaded with 13 2-ton Tomahawk missiles, 19 tons of ammunition is displaced, leaving the sub with 15 tons of "Supplies".

However, when the sub is loaded with 6 28-ton Trident II-C missiles, 34 tons of the sub's supplies are displaced, leaving it with 0 "Supplies". In this state, if you order the sub to move to a destination, it will turn around as soon as it leaves supplied waters, head for its home port and disappear into reserve for "Repair". Then it will quickly re-deploy, full of supplies.

Both load-outs represent major departures from the capability of a RL SSBN-726 which has 24 missile-launch tubes, but is only accepting 13 Tomahawks or 6 Tridents.

[tonystowe]

Ships that are low on "Supplies" (ammunition) will stop taking orders and head for their home ports. This is very strange, since SR2020 units are officialy not suppose to have "home" ports or bases. I have seen and reported this behavior in the DDG-1000 Zumwalt, the BB-61 Iowa, DD-310 and CG-90:

http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... 49&t=15427

I tested your SSBN-726 Ohio-class sub. When it is first deployed it contains 34 tons of "Supplies". When it is loaded with 13 2-ton Tomahawk missiles, 19 tons of ammunition is displaced, leaving the sub with 15 tons of "Supplies".

However, when the sub is loaded with 6 28-ton Trident II-C missiles, 34 tons of the sub's supplies are displaced, leaving it with 0 "Supplies". In this state, if you order the sub to move to a destination, it will turn around as soon as it leaves supplied waters, head for its home port and disappear into reserve for "Repair". Then it will quickly re-deploy, full of supplies.

Both load-outs represent major departures from the capability of a RL SSBN-726 which has 24 missile-launch tubes, but is only accepting 13 Tomahawks or 6 Tridents.

I have not looked that deep into the missile/supply quantities... I will look into this and see if that is the problem. I have each sub loaded with six UGM-96 missiles - if that matters. thanks for the heads up.

[catatonic]

I tested your SSBN-726 Ohio-class sub. When it is first deployed it contains 34 tons of "Supplies". When it is loaded with 13 2-ton Tomahawk missiles, 19 tons of ammunition is displaced, leaving the sub with 15 tons of "Supplies".

However, when the sub is loaded with 6 28-ton Trident II-C missiles, 34 tons of the sub's supplies are displaced, leaving it with 0 "Supplies". In this state, if you order the sub to move to a destination, it will turn around as soon as it leaves supplied waters, head for its home port and disappear into reserve for "Repair". Then it will quickly re-deploy, full of supplies.

Both load-outs represent major departures from the capability of a RL SSBN-726 which has 24 missile-launch tubes, but is only accepting 13 Tomahawks or 6 Tridents.

There is something radically wrong with the Supplies and Missile Capacities of these SSBN subs -

A RL 183-ton B-52 bomber can carry 34 tons of ordinance and the game gives it a missile capacity of 60.

A RL 17,000-ton SSBN-726 can carry 24 65-ton missiles (1560 tons) but in the game it gets a missile capacity of 68.

Furthermore, a submarine is not a cargo ship - loading missiles onto a sub does not decrease its load of torpedos, so the SR2020 sub unit's "Cargo" (missiles) should not reduce its "Supplies" (torpedos).

[Ruges]

There are only two ways I can solve this. Either I increase the amount of supply each sub can hold, or I decrease the amount of supply each missle takesup. Which is the lesser of two evils?

[Balthagor]

...Ships that are low on "Supplies" (ammunition) will stop taking orders and head for their home ports...

This is high on my personal "bugs me" list.

A RL 183-ton B-52 bomber can carry 34 tons of ordinance and the game gives it a missile capacity of 60.

A RL 17,000-ton SSBN-726 can carry 24 65-ton missiles (1560 tons) but in the game it gets a missile capacity of 68...

A "point" does not necessarily correspond to a "weight" particularly that a missile that can be launched from both air and sub is unlikely (don't think we have any) so a point can mean different things on different launch platforms. It's only a control/limit system.

Furthermore, a submarine is not a cargo ship - loading missiles onto a sub does not decrease its load of torpedos, so the SR2020 sub unit's "Cargo" (missiles) should not reduce its "Supplies" (torpedos).

There are some subs that use common launch tubes for harpoons or tomahawks. We extrapolate that system for simplicity. I agree with Ruges comment.

[catatonic]

There are only two ways I can solve this. Either I increase the amount of supply each sub can hold, or I decrease the amount of supply each missle takesup. Which is the lesser of two evils?

Decreasing the amount of supply each missile takes up - how do you do this? Decrease the weight of the warheads?

Some missile types are cross-platform, so it might be best to change the subs, not the missiles, by increasing their "Supplies" attribute.

To load 24 size-10 missiles the Missile Capacity would need to be 240 - about four times what it is now.

[Uriens]

...Ships that are low on "Supplies" (ammunition) will stop taking orders and head for their home ports...

This is high on my personal "bugs me" list.

Helis suffer from same problem.

[tonystowe]

Playing SR2020-GC with Ruges 3.38
Playing as the USA

I have tried to move my SSBN-726 subs from US waters towards South America and Europe and have noticed that they will either remain at the base in which they were pulled out of reserve or "magically" appear at another location but still in US waters. After giving them a move order they will sometimes refuse the order all together. The subs will launch missiles but will not move.

I have not done anything to warrant the military to refuse orders.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I have done some further testing of this missile/sub issue and have found that any submarine loaded with any number of the UGM-96 Trident II-C missiles will move just outside of a supplied hex, then return to base to drop off the missiles and "resupply." Of note, is that the sub shows its supply as maxed out to 34 with a total of 6x UGM-96 onboard, but the second it leaves the "supplied" hex its supply drops to zero and the sub returns to port.

With the UGM-96 offloaded, I can max load any of the other missiles and the sub operates as expected and moves to where I tell it to...

For what it is worth....

//EDIT: I tried this with the GC 6.6.2 version, Ruges MOD, and the MDC mod and the same occurs with each.

[Turm]

I dont know if I'm doing something wrong but I have not been able to reproduce anyones success with this mod. I have played a few games a year and a half through without seeing any difference in how the AI fights battles. Not once in any of my games has any country (including Russia) been able to defeat any other country, most of the times they dont even fight and when they do they at most send 5-7 units to battle while they have 50 units a few hexes away sitting idle. Not only this but the auto builds seems completly usless now. With every autobuild on, only land units are produced in any of my games and then its just conscriptions that are built. Also when I set up my ques manually they dont always then go into production, I have had a que list of 30 aircraft units with a 10 unit build capacity but only 3 aircraft would build at once.
I throughly enjoyed Ruges Mod previously but from what I have seen when playing the newest version I am very unimpressed and will probably wait untill a better version is released if there ever is one.

[tkobo]

A "point" does not necessarily correspond to a "weight" particularly that a missile that can be launched from both air and sub is unlikely (don't think we have any) so a point can mean different things on different launch platforms. It's only a control/limit system.

Brahmos anti-ship missile from India ?

[Ruges]

I dont know if I'm doing something wrong but I have not been able to reproduce anyones success with this mod. I have played a few games a year and a half through without seeing any difference in how the AI fights battles. Not once in any of my games has any country (including Russia) been able to defeat any other country, most of the times they dont even fight and when they do they at most send 5-7 units to battle while they have 50 units a few hexes away sitting idle. Not only this but the auto builds seems completly usless now. With every autobuild on, only land units are produced in any of my games and then its just conscriptions that are built. Also when I set up my ques manually they dont always then go into production, I have had a que list of 30 aircraft units with a 10 unit build capacity but only 3 aircraft would build at once.
I throughly enjoyed Ruges Mod previously but from what I have seen when playing the newest version I am very unimpressed and will probably wait untill a better version is released if there ever is one.

I doubt you moved the AIparams file to the correct location.

[tonystowe]

Playing SR2020-GC with Ruges 3.38
Playing as the USA

I have tried to move my SSBN-726 subs from US waters towards South America and Europe and have noticed that they will either remain at the base in which they were pulled out of reserve or "magically" appear at another location but still in US waters. After giving them a move order they will sometimes refuse the order all together. The subs will launch missiles but will not move.

I have not done anything to warrant the military to refuse orders.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I have done some further testing of this missile/sub issue and have found that any submarine loaded with any number of the UGM-96 Trident II-C missiles will move just outside of a supplied hex, then return to base to drop off the missiles and "resupply." Of note, is that the sub shows its supply as maxed out to 34 with a total of 6x UGM-96 onboard, but the second it leaves the "supplied" hex its supply drops to zero and the sub returns to port.

With the UGM-96 offloaded, I can max load any of the other missiles and the sub operates as expected and moves to where I tell it to...

For what it is worth....

//EDIT: I tried this with the GC 6.6.2 version, Ruges MOD, and the MDC mod and the same occurs with each.

I moved six SSBN subs to European waters between Finland and Poland in order to use the UGM-96 missiles against Russian targets. The move would allow for quicker TOT (time on target) once the missiles had launched. I positioned the subs in a Polish water hex to ensure supply, loaded the maximum number of UGM-96 missiles in each submarine, and eventually fired the missiles at their targets. After the missiles were fired each of the six SSBN's began moving back to the US East coast looking to resupply. To be more accurate, each sub returned to its home port - which I didn't think was possible in regards to naval vessels.

[Ruges]

After the missiles were fired each of the six SSBN's began moving back to the US East coast looking to resupply. To be more accurate, each sub returned to its home port - which I didn't think was possible in regards to naval vessels.

Yes this is a problem even with the standard game.

[Turm]

Well I remember clearly that I backed up the old AIparams so im sure its in the rigth place, either way I am re downloading the mod now and will reapply it and let you know if it fixes the problems

Update:
Well it seems that i did backup the old AIparams but hadnt put in the new one :\ my bad
Ill give a report in a day or so of what i think