Need some tips to manage my troops better

[tellarion]

Hey everyone. I just started playing this game about 2 weeks ago and have been having tons of fun. I picked Uganda as my first country, and have been happily begun conquering my neighbors. So far I've taken over Sudan, half of Tanzania, Chad, Dem. Congo, Angola, and Namibia. My economy is doing fine and I have a huge stock of cash and resources, and am self-sufficient in every category. I've already researched everything that's available at my tech level(80).

My problem started when Egypt declared war on me. I was able to hold back their initial push, whiel fighting on 2 fronts. After I took out my other enemies, I sent my forces at Egypt and slowly pushed them back. If you know Egypt, you can see how tough it can be, with a whole line of cities filled with garrisons, and hard to supply areas on the flanks. I have pushed all the way to Cairo, and that's where it got tough. The AI has tons of mortars, Artillery, M1A1 tanks all over the place, and apparently a huge reserve of units waiting until I pushed this far.

The units I'm using:
Leopard 2 MBT
FRES
WS-2 Long Range Arty
HIMAGS (Just purchased, not many used in force yet)
Mig-25
F35CV
S400 AA

So here's the problem. I've got Air Superiority, so that's not an issue. And my units are more powerful. I guess my issue is I'm not utilizing them properly. My F35s can do some decent damage, but any time they attack anything, they take a beating from ground troops. I know not to order them to directly attack hexes, so I order them to patrol along a tangent 1 hex away from the target, but they still take a ton of damage and are put out of commission. My ground troops also just can't seem to take cities without being annihilated. The constant artillery pounding puts my troops out before they can be of any use. Additionally, I'm having major supply issues, so my tanks/troops often run out of supply and get stuck. I'm only advancing the front by 2-3 hexes at most, I have supply trucks at the rear, and infrastructure is maxed. So, at the least, here are some questions:

1) What's the best way to use my F35s? I saw tkobo's videos, but that seemed to be better suited to defensive situations. How do I set up patrols so that they can take out ground targets without being destroyed?

1a) I have missile authorization OFF, but some of my planes still feel like using them randomly...When the icon is GREEN on the missiles, it means they CAN be used, right?

2) What is the best way to resupply my troops when they're fighting? I have Heavy supply trucks and KC-10A planes. How far away do the trucks have to be to resupply? I usually put them 1-2 hexes behind, but the enemy artillery takes them out quickly. What about the planes? Do they need to fly directly over my units to resupply them? Does this work if they are set to patrol overhead?

3) How the heck do I take out a city cluster full of garrisons? I know about close attack/defense stats, but multiple stacks of FRES can't seem to take a single city when they've got 2 more activated garrisons next door and artillery in the back. Surrounding Cairo is unlikely, but I 'have' tried to split up my units better and come at it from multiple angles. In my last push, I was able to take the city to the Sw, and the military complex to the SE, but could barely take out half of Cairo with 50+ FRES and tanks and artillery assisting...

4) I've read the ROE 101 thread, but still having issues with my units. I set it to lock minister controls, put global initiative on medium and individual initiative on high for all units. I want them to intelligently fall back to repair(which changing this seemed to mess with, they will often sit 1 hex back, still taking damage from mortars, and ignore me when i tell them to repair). I'm kind of at a loss as to what works best here :(

5) Is it a bug when my units run out of supply and decide to charge headlong into the enemy? This has nearly caused me to rage quit the entire game early on. I try to avoid running out of supply, but sometimes I make a mistake, and sure enough my units decide suicide is their only option.

That's all I can think of now. ATM, I called for peace with Egypt and am building up my forces before I take them on again. I'm building some Zummwalts to provide some more assistance, as well as some Spec Forces 2s. I will try to take out more of the military bases behind the lines next time. So...any suggestions??

[GIJoe597]

Welcome aboard, glad you are enjoying the game and having fun. 07

1) What's the best way to use my F35s? I saw tkobo's videos, but that seemed to be better suited to defensive situations. How do I set up patrols so that they can take out ground targets without being destroyed?

This is always a tough thing when dealing with multiple cities and garrison units packed together. In these situation I use a couple if tactics;

a. Grab every plane you have, bite the bullet, and just send them in over the largest concentration of enemy defenders. Accept that you will have losses, but they served their purpose. (see note below)

b. Use missiles. This is very hard to do because of the way missiles are coded in game. You would require a huge stockpile of missiles for this to work. One alternative method with missiles it to only target the enemies barracks. The ai will not build more and eventually all their units will wear out do to the inability to repair. (see note below)

c. Create a solid wall of Inf/Mech Inf and advance one hex at a time. Keep reserves 3 or so hexes back to fill in when you need to withdraw any particular unit. You will notice when I stack (7 units) of units engage in combat only one takes damage*. Use this to your advantage, once it reaches a damage level you are concerned about, manually withdraw it and move in the reserve unit. Just wear the defender down. It is a grind and the most labor intensive but it works in the long run. Always remember, you are much better at concentrating forces than the AI. (see note below)

d. If you care not for civilian casualties have your 2nd wave be Arty units. I have noticed, with only one exception, all of the fast firing heavy suppressing arty or Mortars with short range. They can typically reach only 1 or 2 hexes away. Ensure your Arty has a much greater range and "walk it in". That is to say, move it to max range, (be sure you have radar or a visual on the enemy), and let it work its magic one row of hexes at a time.

e. Use Special Forces, or any ground unit with a high profile rating. (this should be the lower the better, i.e., a low profile is better than a high one, but BG coded it backwards if you ask me.) Set the units to Stealth Approach and walk them in, withdraw as required for resupply etc. (see Note below)

NOTE: Methods a, b, d and e will not cause garrisons to popup. This means you can destroy the actual units there before you need to worry about the Garrisons.

1a) I have missile authorization OFF, but some of my planes still feel like using them randomly...When the icon is GREEN on the missiles, it means they CAN be used, right?

Is this on the Individual ROE or the Global Roe? Yes, when you have the Launch Authority icon showing (bright) they can be launched. Reserve all planes, set the Global ROE to "Not accept Auto Deployed Missiles", bring your planes back out. Now you SHOULD have to manually load any you want to use missiles, or set a particular plane or group of planes to accept them via the Individual ROE.

2) What is the best way to resupply my troops when they're fighting? I have Heavy supply trucks and KC-10A planes. How far away do the trucks have to be to resupply? I usually put them 1-2 hexes behind, but the enemy artillery takes them out quickly. What about the planes? Do they need to fly directly over my units to resupply them? Does this work if they are set to patrol overhead?

Supply units need to be in or adjacent to the unit requiring supply. That is to say, on the same hex or in one of the 6 surrounding hexes. Trucks are a good way to supply your units, Helos are another method as well as the fixed wing. If a plane is on patrol and it has cargo available it will supply any unit that moves under it or within 1 hex of it, same as a supply truck.

Consider topping your units off with supply trucks outside of the range of enemy Arty, then moving your units up to engage. Withdraw and resupply as needed. Units will fight well until they reach approx. 55% supply status.

3) How the heck do I take out a city cluster full of garrisons? I know about close attack/defense stats, but multiple stacks of FRES can't seem to take a single city when they've got 2 more activated garrisons next door and artillery in the back. Surrounding Cairo is unlikely, but I 'have' tried to split up my units better and come at it from multiple angles. In my last push, I was able to take the city to the Sw, and the military complex to the SE, but could barely take out half of Cairo with 50+ FRES and tanks and artillery assisting...

Coming at them from multiple angles is excellent when possible. When the garrisons are so dense and you have Arty to contend with, see #1 answer above, especially e and the NOTE.

4) I've read the ROE 101 thread, but still having issues with my units. I set it to lock minister controls, put global initiative on medium and individual initiative on high for all units. I want them to intelligently fall back to repair(which changing this seemed to mess with, they will often sit 1 hex back, still taking damage from mortars, and ignore me when i tell them to repair). I'm kind of at a loss as to what works best here :(

You mentioned Global and Individual ROE, what do you have set in the Defense Condition window?

5) Is it a bug when my units run out of supply and decide to charge headlong into the enemy? This has nearly caused me to rage quit the entire game early on. I try to avoid running out of supply, but sometimes I make a mistake, and sure enough my units decide suicide is their only option.

Is this ground units, air units or naval units? There is a serious flaw with the coding in my opinion with naval units. When they run out of supply they will head directly to the last port they were docked at, even if there is a supplied hex 2 hexes over. :( Ground units have a flaw also in that they will head to the nearest (distance wise) barracks instead of the most logical one. The best example of this would be a small island off your coast with a barracks. If it is nearest your ground units they will head to it, even though there is no way to reach it. Logically they should head for the closest reachable barracks, not pathing through enemy territory of course.

[tellarion]

Thanks for the suggestions. As far as the missiles go, I went in and selected each individual plane that had missiles, and they automatically had launch authority if they received missiles. Kind of annoying :/...

For supply, does patrolling a tanker overhead on the same hex count? It's hard to just pull them back if they run out because the tanks and such stop responding to my orders at that point :(

I double checked the global vs unit initiative, and I have the global set to LOW actually, and individual set to high. Low should enable them to retreat and repair automatically, right? Also, I read that planes should be set to Engage units in order to make them attack adjacent hexes during patrols, does that sound right? Assuming they have the range, of course(which the F35s do).

As far as the crazy suicidal units, that was with ground units, and they were NOT running towards the nearest barracks. At the time, the defense minister was NOT locked out, and global initiative was set to medium. When they ran out of supply, they ignored my repeated orders to retreat, and rather than just sit in one place, they scrounged enough supplies to charge straight into the enemy, usually in a random angle..They didn't have enough fuel to obey my commands, but could still go in a straight line into enemy territory...

[GIJoe597]

Very odd stuff for sure, it is about 3 am, I will re-read this later and hopefully type something appropriate if no one else has by that time.

[tellarion]

When attacking cities, is it better to have a huge mass of troops pouring in, or sending them in a stack at a time, and rotating them out when they take damage? I'm not sure if having 50+ troops attacking from one hex makes a difference in combat. Do they ALL fire, or only 7 at a time?

[tellarion]

Silly question, but if I have a unit selected, how do I deselect it? Selecting another unit in the unit menu doesn't do it, and if I hit clear it cancels all orders :(

[GIJoe597]

When attacking cities, is it better to have a huge mass of troops pouring in, or sending them in a stack at a time, and rotating them out when they take damage? I'm not sure if having 50+ troops attacking from one hex makes a difference in combat. Do they ALL fire, or only 7 at a time?

There is a limit to the number of units that can be stacked in one hex if you are a human. 7 is the limit, you can get more but they will automatically start moving away from that hex until only 7 are left. So the best bet is to use stacks of 7 in as many hexes as you have frontage for the objective, using more than 7 will not help your cause from my understanding.

I frequently notice the AI breaking this rule which is why I type it applies to the human player. Sadly I do not know the game mechanic to know if more than 7 would fire in the above situation before they all moved away. Maybe Mr Latour will chime in.



To deselect a unit, one method is to press ESC.

[tellarion]

When attacking cities, is it better to have a huge mass of troops pouring in, or sending them in a stack at a time, and rotating them out when they take damage? I'm not sure if having 50+ troops attacking from one hex makes a difference in combat. Do they ALL fire, or only 7 at a time?

There is a limit to the number of units that can be stacked in one hex if you are a human. 7 is the limit, you can get more but they will automatically start moving away from that hex until only 7 are left. So the best bet is to use stacks of 7 in as many hexes as you have frontage for the objective, using more than 7 will not help your cause from my understanding.

I frequently notice the AI breaking this rule which is why I type it applies to the human player. Sadly I do not know the game mechanic to know if more than 7 would fire in the above situation before they all moved away. Maybe Mr Latour will chime in.

So I finally took out Egypt...it was very very messy...I noticed a few things though. If I don't allow minister control, my units won't auto retreat to repair, even if at medium or high initiative. Is that supposed to happen that way? I don't want my minister taking units and shuffling them around(especially ships or stationing infantry at my capital), but I wan't them to retreat from the danger zone and go repair when necessary without the additional micromanagement. How the heck can I set it up this way?

Also, when minister is locked out and I tell a giant stack of units to attack, they all occupy one hex simultaneously to commence the attack. This is why I asked about how many actually shoot, because without minister turned on, they won't back off if there are more than 7, but it definitely doesn't seem like more than 7 are attacking at any time.

[GIJoe597]

I guess our AI is also immune to the 7 limit hex stack. I cannot answer the auto repair question, I have never played with minister allowed to move my troops. My setting - they will withdraw before destroyed, but I still need to order them for repair. Keeps them from pathing ino the enemy and getting destroyed anyway.

Maybe someone who knows the correct setting, if there is one, will post here. I still suspect it will not be satisfactory due to the aforementioned tendency of the AI to head to the nearest (geographically) barracks, even if it means crossing the enemies front to get there.

[Ruges]

So I finally took out Egypt...it was very very messy...I noticed a few things though. If I don't allow minister control, my units won't auto retreat to repair, even if at medium or high initiative. Is that supposed to happen that way? I don't want my minister taking units and shuffling them around(especially ships or stationing infantry at my capital), but I wan't them to retreat from the danger zone and go repair when necessary without the additional micromanagement. How the heck can I set it up this way?

Also, when minister is locked out and I tell a giant stack of units to attack, they all occupy one hex simultaneously to commence the attack. This is why I asked about how many actually shoot, because without minister turned on, they won't back off if there are more than 7, but it definitely doesn't seem like more than 7 are attacking at any time.

The reason they are retreating to repair is becouse your minister is ordering them to go back and repair. You have two options either let your minister control them so they will go back and repair, but then the minister also has control on sending them to defensive spots or attacking spots. Or dont let your minister control your units so you have full control over them but they wont go and repair automaticaly. Myself I prefer to play at lower speeds and control everything myself, pausing regularly to see if a unit is taking damage so I can recall him myself.

Yes it is possible to create stacks greater then 7. However after a game day and space permiting they will seek to move to an adjacent hex if no orders are givin. If you order 100 units to attack 1 hex, they will all move to the adjacant hex and begin to shoot, So you could wind up with allot of units on one hex all fighting. But there is a stacking penalty. If you have more then 7 units in one hex they will not fight as strong, the attack stats are reduced. I dont remember the exact figures, And this has not been talked about for around 2 years. But if you use the search feature I am sure you will be able to find the post discusing stacking penalties.

[tellarion]

The reason they are retreating to repair is becouse your minister is ordering them to go back and repair. You have two options either let your minister control them so they will go back and repair, but then the minister also has control on sending them to defensive spots or attacking spots. Or dont let your minister control your units so you have full control over them but they wont go and repair automaticaly. Myself I prefer to play at lower speeds and control everything myself, pausing regularly to see if a unit is taking damage so I can recall him myself.

Yes it is possible to create stacks greater then 7. However after a game day and space permiting they will seek to move to an adjacent hex if no orders are givin. If you order 100 units to attack 1 hex, they will all move to the adjacant hex and begin to shoot, So you could wind up with allot of units on one hex all fighting. But there is a stacking penalty. If you have more then 7 units in one hex they will not fight as strong, the attack stats are reduced. I dont remember the exact figures, And this has not been talked about for around 2 years. But if you use the search feature I am sure you will be able to find the post discusing stacking penalties.

That is very good to know! I was playing at slow speed the whole time, but even so it was a loooot of work to individually pick out damaged units and send them back. I had 300+ units in such a small space! The biggest problem is that damaged units would back out one hex, and then sit there in the artillery fire and almost get destroyed. And the stacking penalty makes a lot of sense, so I will definitely avoid that next time