"The Vodnik"

[TheCyab6a]

hello everybody i have a supreme question WHY IS THE RUSSIAN VODNIK SO GOOD!!! i played many multyplayer games and when playing as russia ppl always asked me for the vodnik so i when to single player to figure it out i played as russia and build nothing but vodniks by 2022 i had about 4000 of them and i conqured all of europe and asia faster than iv ever been able to before why r they so good ????


thecyab6a

[GIJoe597]

With 4000 of anything you can walk over everyone. Try a test, 7 vodniks against 7 FRES...

[TheCyab6a]

yes ur right on that but the vodniks win in all the tests iv done with a few friends the vodniks win 1 vodnik vs a tank the tank wins 100 vodniks vs 100 tanks the vodniks win ?? and evin if i have a small number of them they can still win out against a mixed force

[GIJoe597]

I do not know under what conditions you tested this, what your technology level or your funding was at. Nor do I know what type of hex you were using, close combat? Open field? Too many variables for me to comment on what you typed either way.

What I can type is; I find the Vodnik to be a terrible unit and have never considered it to be a super weapon at all.

I will add that in most cases an INF unit will destroy a tank unit rather easily. This is harder or easier depending on the techs, funding and the hex type. Then you need to consider morale of the opposing armies also.

As we all know there are certain instances where the AI seems to have super units. The most infamous is the Engineer. For whatever reason the AI has a tendency to ignore the stacking limits in some cases. I know I have had my units decimated by a "super" stack of engineers under AI control. When this happens you can generally hover you mouse over the AI stack and there are so many units you cannot see them all in the pop up. The window extends beyond the screen capability.

This can happen with any unit.

Tank = open field combat, (think long range)
INF = close quarters combat, excellent in urban environment.


Try the scenario I typed above, 7 Vodnik vs 7 FRES, (INF to INF). Ensure each nation has same funding, morale and techs.

[number47]

This post made me very curious so I examined the Vodnik unit. The best thing about the Vodnik is that it only takes 11 days to build and it is extremely cheap. I also think that when comparing two units, 1:1 (or any x:x) comparison is never good for ingame purposes. I'll provide a table below to show why Vodnik is, for me at least, better unit than FRES (in terms of ingame confrontation, of course ).

vodnik.JPG

For purposes of this presentation, let's say both players have unlimited resources and money and start with no units. From the table we can see that due to the difference in build time, theoretically, the ingame ratio would be a 5:1 in favor of Vodnik and although Vodnik has lower fighting stats, you can already predict the confrontation result (in this case, quantity prevails over quality)

Just to mention that, for the purposes of this presentation I deliberately disregarded the impact on economy these two units (in the ratio presented) would have (cost, supplies, fuel...) and focused only on the battlefield confrontation.

[GIJoe597]

... (in this case, quantity prevails over quality)

I am not so sure, remember in a stack only one unit takes damage, a stack of FRES will damage that one unit twice as fast and has almost double the defensive value,. That could theoretically be a 4-1 kill ratio.. pretty closes, will it kill fast enough? Interesting to think about but all that matters is, human vs ai or human vs human.

I prefer the M2A4!


I know how we can test this, lets start a MP game, you as Russia and me as USA, last one standing wins! You ready.

[Ruges]

This is somthing that would need to be tested. Because I could see it going either way. You just need to take 4 stacks of vods and fight 1 stack of fres in an MP game and see what the results are. The stuff that number said rings true and the stuff that GI said ring true,

[number47]

... (in this case, quantity prevails over quality)

I am not so sure, remember in a stack only one unit takes damage, a stack of FRES will damage that one unit twice as fast and has almost double the defensive value,. That could theoretically be a 4-1 kill ratio.. pretty closes, will it kill fast enough? Interesting to think about but all that matters is, human vs ai or human vs human.

I prefer the M2A4!


I know how we can test this, lets start a MP game, you as Russia and me as USA, last one standing wins! You ready.

I'm interested in MP game but no so much in solely testing this theory
Just to see if I understood you, you are proposing that more fair test would be 1 stack (1xFRESx7) against 5 stacks (5xVodnikx7)? But I agree that it really would be interesting to see how 5 weaker stacks fighting 1 stronger would end


EDIT: had to change the FRES and Vodnik numbers

[Ruges]

Well when you get into the 5 stack range, you also will have to consider supply. At 5 stacks vrs 1 stack the 1 stack would be out of supply. Also its not somthing I have had to think about in awhile, but I could swear balth said a few years ago that multiple stacks of not greater then 7 units do get combat bonus in the way the formula is done.

[TheCyab6a]

id lke to see how that goes one nation build all vods the othar fres...?