Reaching full employment

Imports, Exports, Taxes & Social Spending... discuss these topics here.

Moderators: Balthagor, Legend

Apophis
Sergeant
Posts: 19
Joined: Dec 10 2008

Reaching full employment

Post by Apophis »

Hi

I am playing as Myanmar(Burma) right now and i have started to build up the industry. It didnt take me
a long time untill my unemplyment rate dropped down to 2.5%. Now i get notifications that the demand will increase and so on.
Is this good? I mean if there is more demand than it will cost me alot more right?

So should i try to increase the unemployment somehow? And if so how do i do that?

I have been playing this game on and off for about a year but only recently tried to really figure it out.
User avatar
Ruges
General
Posts: 3408
Joined: Aug 22 2008
Location: Nearby, really I'll see you tonight when your sleeping
Contact:

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by Ruges »

Once your unenployment starts to drop below 3 percent, the cost to produce the goods goes up. And the closer it gets to 0 percent the higher it goes There are several ways to raise unemployment, First is to lower production. Make sure you are not producing anything that you can import cheaper. Basicaly you can cut production if you have the domestic price higher then the market price. This can usualy be done with agri, water, timer. Just stop all production. and import all you need while setting the dometic price to 69 percent. For instance for timber the market price might be $63. while you set your domestic price to $98. meaning you make a $35 profit on every unit your population consume. And you dont have to spend your dwindling manpower on it. Also deactivate any non used military structures. Do you need that airport right now? thats manpower that your using to keep it active. have any deployed units? or garrisons? these also factor into your unemployment rate. Also raising taxes on corperate and small buisnesses will raise your unemployment too.

All these things have the added bonus of giving you more money.
thegoatkidney
Private
Posts: 1
Joined: Dec 23 2011
Human: Yes

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by thegoatkidney »

Also if you're a Lowe gps/c country such as Burma, do not establish free flow of labor force treaties while trying to build industry as these lower unemployment and can cause budget problems.
User avatar
Antonin
Lieutenant
Posts: 94
Joined: Jul 23 2005
Location: The Icy Cold of Space

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by Antonin »

thegoatkidney wrote:Also if you're a Lowe gps/c country such as Burma, do not establish free flow of labor force treaties while trying to build industry as these lower unemployment and can cause budget problems.
I wish I had searched out this thread before starting my current game.

I'm playing as Mali. Poor, landlocked countries like Mali and Niger have always fascinated me. And with Mali's recent political problems, I thought I would see if I can do a better job than its reali-life political establishment.

I have built several consumer goods plants. Foreign countries seem to approach you often if you produce consumer goods, and the richer ones offer a high price.

I also produce export ag products and water, mainly to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

But I've seen unemployment drop to 1.9% and inflation reach 49%. I thought low unemployment was good, because one of the reasons to play a poor country is to see if you can create a workers paridise. I've increased my spending on social programs and have begun to pay off my national debt.

But the high inflation is a problem.

Unfortunately, I have always sought out free movement of labor agreements with other countries.

I've now deactivated several ag production facilities and raised corporate taxes. Inflation is down to 38% and unemployment is up to 2.1%. So far.

It's an interesting experiment.
User avatar
Anthropoid
Colonel
Posts: 416
Joined: Dec 10 2012
Human: Yes

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by Anthropoid »

Ruges wrote:Once your unenployment starts to drop below 3 percent, the cost to produce the goods goes up. And the closer it gets to 0 percent the higher it goes There are several ways to raise unemployment, First is to lower production. Make sure you are not producing anything that you can import cheaper. Basicaly you can cut production if you have the domestic price higher then the market price. This can usualy be done with agri, water, timer. Just stop all production. and import all you need while setting the dometic price to 69 percent. For instance for timber the market price might be $63. while you set your domestic price to $98. meaning you make a $35 profit on every unit your population consume. And you dont have to spend your dwindling manpower on it. Also deactivate any non used military structures. Do you need that airport right now? thats manpower that your using to keep it active. have any deployed units? or garrisons? these also factor into your unemployment rate. Also raising taxes on corperate and small buisnesses will raise your unemployment too.

All these things have the added bonus of giving you more money.
This just answered a lot of questions for me, but I still have one question and my searching of old forum threads is not turning up anything:

Manpower total.

I noted that about six months ago (mid 2022, playing Egypt, unmodded GC) my total military staff and reserves were 409557 (active) + 185,249 (reserves) = 595,136.

As of Jan 4 2023 they are 419,746 and 174112 = 593,858.

That is a drop of 1,278 people from my total military personnel in less than 6 months.

Is this normal?

Does it continue like that indefinitely?

Is there a way to keep my total military manpower pool growing?

I would assume that paying more in military salary and training, and having a generally growing population would tend to increase the pool of my military manpower?
CheefCoach
Warrant Officer
Posts: 42
Joined: Dec 12 2012
Human: Yes

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by CheefCoach »

Just ignore employment! Keep infrastructure spending on 200% so production cost don't get hot. Enyoy.
galin56
Sergeant
Posts: 12
Joined: Mar 25 2013
Human: Yes

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by galin56 »

I think that its unrealistic and it is a bug. I try this with several countries in Africa with high unemployment and after several month reach level under 2%. For example Burundi. 8.2 mln. population, without neither one industrial building (interesting why the unemployment was 17% in the start of the game - not 80-90%). I had build just one Consumer goods and one Power Coal - and stop to see the result. And result was after about month unemploment reach 2% and appear message for labor shortage. 8,2 mln., maybe 4-5mln. in age for work(not students or old people) and all of them work in one Cons good and one Power coal ?!?!! I think that if there is a message/alert/statistic - labor shortage have to there and a statistic with exact numbers of people - number - in work age, number employed and where they are employed(percentages), numbers of unemployed, students, pensioners. And every factory how much workers work there. In that way the player always can calculate with what manpower has and what to build and not to leave the factory without workers. And in that way will be more easy to calculate the numbers and wouldn't have bugs like 5mln. people to work in one Cons good and one Power coal(that is very irritating). And finally one more proposal with higher tech level the number of workers in one factory to decrease and efficiency to go up.
User avatar
Ruges
General
Posts: 3408
Joined: Aug 22 2008
Location: Nearby, really I'll see you tonight when your sleeping
Contact:

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by Ruges »

Cities themselves produce several resources. And is dependent upon your infra rating. Burundi would be very susceptible to this since it has a low population and low economic rating at the start. the giant influx a player can create on an economy like this easily creates more jobs, thus lowering population. Also a single power plant ingame is not the same as a single power plant IRL.
rintu4mj
Corporal
Posts: 5
Joined: May 29 2013
Human: Yes

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by rintu4mj »

The best way is to occupy more territory from enemy by convincin g other player to declare on you
georgios
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 600
Joined: Aug 13 2012
Human: Yes

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by georgios »

unemployment seem to be related with inflation.

editing unemployment in cvp leads to change in inflation rate. but editing inflation does not affect inflation itself. perhaps inflation in cvp file is not an active parametre.

generally as the game runs gdp and inflation rises and unemployment falls. as in reality there is no known way to prevent inflation even if gdp drops...
User avatar
Ghiby
Sergeant
Posts: 14
Joined: May 12 2009
Human: Yes
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Contact:

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by Ghiby »

I think it's a old bug since 2010 carried and unaddressed to this day...

I've started with a country of around 20 Mil population and high unemployment above 19%

In not even 6 game months I was under 2% unemployment

I've conquer another country of over 50 million population so new fresh workforce...they had high unemployment before they wardec me (with Saddamme) above 15%...

I've annexed them the entire 50 million population and so they should join the workforce and as such increase my unemployment...but no, not at all, I'm still at barely 2.5-2.6% unemployment with over new 50 million population coming in...how does that make sense I don't know...

Hence the unemployment thing sadly is not working as intended...

I've addressed in the past with the devs and here and via discord and the answer at that time was the game in question SR2020 Gold, was too old, not supported anymore and old team working on algorithms and coding is no longer available...

OK, I got SRU...same thing... hence it's a old bug never recognized officially and never addressed...

Which is making me reluctant to buy SR2030, even if I have great respect for the devs...

Just forget about fine tuning for the unemployment...get used to the idea it's a hurdle an obstacle to your country development... it's sad is not replicating real life behavior...

@devs

You are great coders with great talent

Please do something about the unemployment, it's just wrong how it works it's nowhere near to what would be based on a real life country development...

How can I have under 2.7% unemployment after absorbing 50 million population so new fresh workforce?? Why are the new people not reflecting the new status of a country with too many people and too few jobs??

Why is the "free flow of the workforce" is not bringing in new even more workers when I have much greater GDP - 2x 4x 5x - more than the targeted country..??..

Don't you guys see something is wrong in the way unemployment is calculated??

I've been reluctant to post about it for years because I'm very frustrated about this and I don't want to be perceived as critical or complaining... but the unemployment is not working as it should and I've been saying that since the release of SR 2020...decades later and it's the same issue...
* Information Is Knowledge * Knowledge Is Power * Power Is Domination *
* Real power is when you have it but you don't need to use it *
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22082
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by Balthagor »

I'll admit that I know very little about that part of the games economy, I don't touch the code or any of that stuff, but if you're looking for feedback on how this is working in SR2030, you might need to ask in the 2030 section. Would you like me to move this thread for you? It sounds like you're trying to speak to SR2030 users, not SR2020 users.

I've opened ticket 35780 to track this. If the community agrees that unemployment balance is incorrect, we can dig deeper.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
User avatar
Ghiby
Sergeant
Posts: 14
Joined: May 12 2009
Human: Yes
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Contact:

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by Ghiby »

Thank you Chris for following up with me on this...

No I don't need to have this post on the SR 2030, because I was answering to the original post here in the SR 2020 which I still play along with SRU...

But in all those SR 2020 and the following ones up to SRU the unemployment is not working correctly since the very begging mainly:

1. "Free flow of the workforce" won't attract new workers at least not at a reasonable speed with increasing the immigration and slowly increasing the unemployment above 3%
- and that with much higher GDP of my country than the other countries I have diplomatic agreements for free flow of the workers, 2x to 5x to 10x higher GDP of my country still the other workers in a country with lower GDP and high unemployment don't migrate to my country to fill in the available jobs

2. Conquering and annexing a country with a lot of unemployed people won't solve the low unemployment of the victorious country

For example I've annexed USSR winning in the WW2 era ,and I got almost 200 million population on top of my initial 20 million population... still after months of in-game time, after "integration" so to speak I have under 3% unemployment

So new population in overwhelming numbers, hundreds of millions of people won't make a difference in adjusting, increasing my unemployment as expected

Something is definitely not working as intended with the unemployment
- it goes down too fast
- it won't go up as expected when new population is annexed and when diplomatic agreements are in place for "free flow of the workers" with high GDP of my country that should be appealing for new workers immigrating for economic reasons
- low taxes, great quality of life in healthcare and education and infrastructure and all the other social spending won't make a difference in making my country appealing to new immigrants and workers to come and solve the low, way lower unemployment issue

I'd say that optimal is between 5-7%... clearly under 3% is critically low... and above 9-11% would be unhealthy for a strong economy


The tools are there, just not balanced correctly and not monitored for optimal results...

Regardless of the community if they notice those fine tuning effects or not, you as the creators and developers should make it better for realism and authenticity in the simulation...

Many players are maybe kids or teens with not a deep understanding of the impact the unemployment has on a country's economy...many want just PvE or PvP to blow things up, but few are looking into those advanced features enough to realize if it works properly or not...

So I'd say is somewhat irrelevant the community reaction to this kind of fine tuning... you as devs must fix it because you have to keep high standards in delivery so we can keep buying your products in the series...

I'd like to see it fixed in SR 2020 and SRU before even considering to get the SR 2030

I think it's a bug that went ignored because maybe not many in the community realize it enough to pinpoint it... I've tried in the past but with no success...

The game concept is great for SR series... sadly not so great for the Galactic Ruler in my humble opinion... this unemployment bug can be fixed if you look into it and make some adjustments...

Thank you for reading my feedback... it's maybe long because I care about the SR game and I'd like to see it better...the potential is there...

I'd also like to see some variations based on the antic history and medieval times from the Roman empire vs Byzantine empire and the Ottomans to Vikings raiding, from the Egyptian pharaohs to Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan, from the imperial expansion and the race to colonize the world to the west expansion of the early USA and everything else in between...why not...the core concept is there and you can only build up from that with no limits to replicate the historical events and the nations involved...
* Information Is Knowledge * Knowledge Is Power * Power Is Domination *
* Real power is when you have it but you don't need to use it *
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22082
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by Balthagor »

Ghiby wrote: Jan 24 2024...I'd like to see it fixed in SR 2020 and SRU before even considering to get the SR 2030...
There will be no further changes to the previous games. Development on those titles ended 12 years ago for SR2020 and 4 years ago for SRU. There is no more raw code to work from, it's been entirely transformed into the base code for SR2030.

I will take your notes on unemployment and add them to a new ticket (35795) for a review to be done of how unemployment values are managed.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
User avatar
Ghiby
Sergeant
Posts: 14
Joined: May 12 2009
Human: Yes
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
Contact:

Re: Reaching full employment

Post by Ghiby »

Balthagor wrote: Jan 24 2024
Ghiby wrote: Jan 24 2024...I'd like to see it fixed in SR 2020 and SRU before even considering to get the SR 2030...
There will be no further changes to the previous games. Development on those titles ended 12 years ago for SR2020 and 4 years ago for SRU. There is no more raw code to work from, it's been entirely transformed into the base code for SR2030.

I will take your notes on unemployment and add them to a new ticket (35795) for a review of how unemployment values are managed.
Thank you Chris for following up and taking it further with a ticket to review the unemployment balancing and behavior

it's sad to hear you guys are no longer updating the older games, as we still have them, and play them... I'm sad to reiterate once again, as I did years ago via your Discord, that the best in the series - in my opinion - is, in fact, the SR 2020, if that one would have colonies (with annex and/or liberate) and renaming of the hexes, would be the perfect grand strategy game... much better than others, from you or your competition, I won't give names, but you know them...

as a side note, you see other studios reviving older games and releasing "remastered" versions, like Homeworld and even Half-Life and more... why not consider "remastering" and improving SR 2020, and releasing it for a new source of revenue and for the newer generation of players to try it, some new guys that were too young, or not even born at the time of the initial release... I for one, I would pay real money, to see SR 2020 just with colonies and renaming of the hexes, nothing more...

that was your landmark, a milestone that placed your studio on the gaming world map...it deserves a "remastered" version I'd and I'd gladly buy it... no more raw code?? really?? reverse engineer it as a studio, since it's your own code... I could do it myself if I put my mind to that, but I have no time or energy to do it...

we've gained over time, with the SR sequels, the ability to colonize, to annex and/or liberate regions, to name the hexes, and some tech tree and UI improvements (and more), but we lost the ability to set up our own threat levels and some other features, I won't mention now, to keep it short...


for example, now in SRU sandbox 1936, the AI keeps setting my hotspots, over the over again, despite the fact some cities are no longer hotspot targets, because I've already won the war with them, and annexed the region, like I won and annexed the USSR in sandbox SRU 1936, Moskow is now under my own territory (sorry to my fellow Russian players friends, but the USSR wardec me)

yet the AI "Defense minister" I guess, keeps setting Moskow as a hotspot to attack it... I'm not even at war with them, the USSR is a dead nation, and Moskow is mine integrated with my territory, yet it keeps showing up as a hotspot, to attack it...

I manually deleted, it so it wouldn't create confusion on my units, yet after a few minutes, it automatically is set as a hotspot again and again... is this a bug..??.. or how can I turn it off..??.. looks like something else again I have no control over once more...

my threat level is automatically set to "High" - and I have no control over it - when I'd like to have it at medium, once again creating a lot of confusion and unnecessary use of the units in the region, with high initiative... regardless of my battle zone and theater control settings

I don't fully understand this decision to remove our ability to set up our own threat level, in real life the internal security council of a country and its leader will decide the country's threat level, as it was perfectly replicated in SR 2020... we raise it, or lower it, manually, as we see fit based on our agendas... we lost that ability and it's sad...

I'll stop here for now, and please understand I'm not criticizing or complaining, I just like to see the game better, because out of many other options out there, SR series is a great game simulation and I care for it, I've spent countless hours diving deep into the simulation and it's one of the if not the best in its genre...

thank you
* Information Is Knowledge * Knowledge Is Power * Power Is Domination *
* Real power is when you have it but you don't need to use it *
Post Reply

Return to “Production & Economy - 2020”