Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Imports, Exports, Taxes & Social Spending... discuss these topics here.

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tommygun
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Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by tommygun »

Hi everyone, I've been playing this game for some time now and I really like it so far, the detail level is just great :-) , but I have some questions, because the manual didn't really explain this in depth and I couldn't find this particular topic here on the forum.

What's the difference and effects if you raise/lower the different types of taxes? If I lower the property tax and raise the small business tax for example? Does it affect anything else than inflation? Like production costs or something..

I understand that Health/Education/Infrastructure/Family Subsidies/Environment affect population, literacy, supply and tourism how does Culture, Social Assistance and Law Enforcement affect the economy? (except for working as counterintel on the last one) |O

Cheers
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ncbeach
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by ncbeach »

tommygun wrote: how does Culture, Social Assistance and Law Enforcement affect the economy? (except for working as counterintel on the last one) |O
culture- not really sure about this one... but i believe it decreases other nations causi beli against you.. might affect loyality and supply as well

social assistance- increases domestic demand for commodities and goods

law enforcement- increased approval, increased loyalty, reduces chance of gorilla and partisan attacks

****
since there isnt documentation these are my gut feelings but i could be wrong.. the one i am most sure about is social assistance...
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tommygun
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by tommygun »

Thanks ncbeach

Maybe the developers could provide some documentation about this here on the forum, because I'm pretty sure that everyone would benefit from knowing the game mechanisms a little better to run our countries :-)
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sonofliberty
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by sonofliberty »

On a related note, why does the game assume socialism is the best governing method(ie makes the most happy citizens). Why cant good old fashioned free market capitalism be allowed to have positive benefits? This is a game only question, and not an invitation to a political discussion vis-a-vis the real world.
Opthalamia
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by Opthalamia »

Communist Regimes have a GDP/c penalty, lower DEFCON benefits and problems after vote against their communist party.

Democratic Nations have a multi-party system, you need only ~31% to win a election. You cant compare the 2 systems.
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by sonofliberty »

Opthalamia wrote:Communist Regimes have a GDP/c penalty, lower DEFCON benefits and problems after vote against their communist party.

Democratic Nations have a multi-party system, you need only ~31% to win a election. You cant compare the 2 systems.
Actually my question wasw over forms of "democracy". Prior to our entry into socialism in the 1930's the USA believed in "self reliance". However the game only allows for the "populace" to be "happy" when many socialist programs are in force as reflected by government supported healthcare, cultural spending, social assistance, unemployment etc... We all know that these programs are a serious drain on the economy. Why can't the populace be made happy by national debt reduction and less government intrusion/control over thier lives? Instead of a linear progression of more social spending = happier populace, how about a more balanced approach where the populace understands that more spending means higher taxes, more government control, and less personal freedom?
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by Eskodas »

"happier populace, how about a more balanced approach where the populace understands that more spending means higher taxes, more government control, and less personal freedom?"

People aren't that smart in the real world. :(
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Opthalamia
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by Opthalamia »

But low taxes increase the approval rating, in SR2020.
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by VietMinh »

Instead of a linear progression of more social spending = happier populace
Without getting in much of a debate, that simply is the reality of economics, your nation is not Socialist. It has made several concessions to avert any domestic revolution and to increase purchasing power that's pretty much it.

P.S dont get into a debate over laissez-faire with me, I wrote my Drphil dissertation on the failings of the free market and the necessity of intervention.
Marxist ~~~ Bolshevik ~~~ Syndicalist
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boxerdemon
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by boxerdemon »

Suppose that's why the Chinese are quickly relinquishing government control over commercial enterprise...But, don't mind me, I just have my Master's. I'm a moron.

And for future reference...You don't write dissertations anymore. You present them to a committee of professors who decide whether or not you're awarded a doctorate. Unless you're just an older individual. In that case, remember that the Berlin wall fell a long, long time ago. We even have chunks of it on my alma mater's campus. Otherwise before you make a claim resembling "don't argue with me, I'm educated", at least get the system down before someone like me come's along who knows how the game is played.
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by Asimov »

sonofliberty wrote:
Opthalamia wrote:Communist Regimes have a GDP/c penalty, lower DEFCON benefits and problems after vote against their communist party.

Democratic Nations have a multi-party system, you need only ~31% to win a election. You cant compare the 2 systems.
Actually my question wasw over forms of "democracy". Prior to our entry into socialism in the 1930's the USA believed in "self reliance". However the game only allows for the "populace" to be "happy" when many socialist programs are in force as reflected by government supported healthcare, cultural spending, social assistance, unemployment etc... We all know that these programs are a serious drain on the economy. Why can't the populace be made happy by national debt reduction and less government intrusion/control over thier lives? Instead of a linear progression of more social spending = happier populace, how about a more balanced approach where the populace understands that more spending means higher taxes, more government control, and less personal freedom?
Well, more social spending in game does lead to inflation, and that can be a bad thing for your economy. Social programmes do use up a lot of national budget, but the feelings for and effect of these programmes varies greatly amid the populations. It's difficult to come up with a 'net' final outcome.

I don't think the game's social model is that sophistated and that's probably completely out of the bounds of existing game AI technology anyway.

Also, the game haven't factored in personal freedom, as the difference between the player's choice of political ideology doesn't seem to have much effect on DAR.
Eskodas
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by Eskodas »

tommygun wrote:Hi everyone, I've been playing this game for some time now and I really like it so far, the detail level is just great :-) , but I have some questions, because the manual didn't really explain this in depth and I couldn't find this particular topic here on the forum.

What's the difference and effects if you raise/lower the different types of taxes? If I lower the property tax and raise the small business tax for example? Does it affect anything else than inflation? Like production costs or something..

I understand that Health/Education/Infrastructure/Family Subsidies/Environment affect population, literacy, supply and tourism how does Culture, Social Assistance and Law Enforcement affect the economy? (except for working as counterintel on the last one) |O

Cheers
Health affects Birth & Death rates & Immigration/migration
Eductaion affects Literacy=GDP
Infastructure affects level of supply which effects Porduction.
Enviro=Un, Domestic Aprrovle Rrating
Family Subs. affects DAR
Police affects partisan activities, counter intel, & DAR
Culture affects CB & DAR
Social assistance effects the Domestic Product demand and inflation(lower=less, not 100% sure).

Less Low Income tax = better DAR
" High " "=" "
Corporate and business affects GDP and Unemploment(higher taxes, less umemployment)
Umemployement (less taxes more unemployment)
Update for the others cant remeber what they are.

My model is to have overall 50% taxes then increase individual Corporate and Small buisness by 5% then 0% umemployment tax.
As Russia with pop. at 1,700,000,000 i hav 1.6% infaltion and 4.6% Unemployment, but i only have 13,000 GDP but this is cause i defeated china and added 1 billion people at $3,000.
Last edited by Eskodas on Nov 01 2008, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by GIJoe597 »

Edited: Disregard
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VietMinh
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by VietMinh »

Suppose that's why the Chinese are quickly relinquishing government control over commercial enterprise...But, don't mind me, I just have my Master's. I'm a moron.

And for future reference...You don't write dissertations anymore. You present them to a committee of professors who decide whether or not you're awarded a doctorate. Unless you're just an older individual. In that case, remember that the Berlin wall fell a long, long time ago. We even have chunks of it on my alma mater's campus. Otherwise before you make a claim resembling "don't argue with me, I'm educated", at least get the system down before someone like me come's along who knows how the game is played.
Last post on the matter but you proved my use of that little clause appropriate, it says in few words what otherwise would need to be repeated again and again. The fact that you associate the Soviet Union with any kind of Socialism is pretty pathetic, Bonapartism holds all the nominal value of a "Socialist state" but in reality stalinism is simply bs. By the way you do still write a dissertation and you do review with a board and an adviser, may depend where you live though.
Marxist ~~~ Bolshevik ~~~ Syndicalist
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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tkobo
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Re: Different types of Social Spending and Taxes

Post by tkobo »

When i run a large strong region, i run it at zero taxes,max domestic prices and max social spending.

I run the U.S. this way and make a good profit for the treasury.I than use the trade money i rake in, for those nice little projects-like bringing my reason and wisdom to the rest of the world :P
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
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