@Lightbringer
What for one person is too abundant is for another one too little.
The only way to resolve that problem is to make a god-mode hyper editor where you can edit and add new techs, ressources, events of every imaginable kind etc. (I hope the new editor will be at least partly of that kind)
The question I ask myself is: Will it be possible in sr 2020 for every region to become self-sufficient
with the right tech? (e.g. playermade techs)
synthetic fuel, unlimited energy (plutonium , thorium, (breeder reactor), Methanhydrate), synthetic/gm food (more crop), synthetic metal
At least it would be realistic regarding the developement of technology in general. (everything is/will be feasible)
Matter = Energy, whereas esp. the latter one is unlimited --->both are unexhaustable/unlimited.
Efficiency can be pushed by "fear". That doesn´t necessarilly mean death.
You can do it, if they are watched closely 24/7 by gun-armed units,
soldiers, auxiliary police, keeper etc. specially assigned for this purpose.
People who don't hesitate to shoot, whenever necessary.
Of course it is important to make an example of from time to time.
I don't know if you can reach 100 % with it, but probably almost and with the techs of 2020 certainly >100%.
100 % employment works if everybody gets normal earnings and the economy produces enough goods, so the money doesnt lose value. (unlike socialism, where there weren't enough goods to buy, but everyone had work and nominally earned "normally")
If you expand your economy by force (state order), much workers are needed for building the big heavy industrial structures.
Money shouldn't matter in such case, esp. if you make external debts. In case of emergency you can pay your debt by making war against your debitors.
What counts is what you see. Money is a fiction, but the heavy industries, military equipment, shipyards, the real output, crops, bread and everything "meterial" compensates for the money loss.
@tkobo
"Well, my army of well over 5k units had an efficiency of circa 107%.
I would guess, that IF you know what your doing, the efficiency cost wouldnt be an issue til REALLY absurb units numbers.Somewhere Well after 10k."
10k is a really absurb number? Not for me.
"Manpower and or amount of units is VERY low on priority for me when i go a conquering from a small region.Intelligent use of what ive got is FAR more important.Ive never had a problem kicking the butts of the larger regions, no matter what size my starter region is "
My strategy has always been to produce every kind of units en masse and not using it intelligently, but attack with everything I've in the bordering area if not with the whole army.
"Ever ? No its not quite that way,becuase as you conquer you get more population.Too much in my opinion.Hopefully the loyalty system will adress this in sr2020. "
What happens if you want to play without war for 20 years. Do nearly all people leave your country if you manage your economy badly. Cant you do anything about it? (goal: 0 % emigration set by force)
In Superpower II I often played scenarios for more then 200-300 years and grew such small countries like Uzbekistan or Belgium to Billions of people before conquering the whole planet.
I know thats a completely different scale, but you could really do that without cheats only by choosing the right law at the right time and by observing special "cycles" which were connected with the law.
Sometimes I had birthrates of 10-30 %. I even made my country poor for my population to become dumb and the women giving more birth.
I must admit that a recovery from that bad state was very difficult if not impossible, due to lack of money and other (big) nations, which I could ask for help.
If a heterogenous population (big parts of conquered people) can never be loyal towards me at 100 %
then I want some system or way to get rid of them and have - if choosen so - only my homepopulation spread
everywhere I want them to live.
So 100 % loyalty could be guaranted and combined with enforced high birthrates in maybe 20 years the population could double or tripple.
"Im on the opposite side here.I dont see what your pointing to as problems.In fact,I actually see some of what your asking for as problems .
A realistic game, which this game is trying to be, shouldnt have unlimited anything.Let alone unlimited units with no costs to maintian them.Thats far too kiddie for this game imo.
Now i have no issue if you can mod it to that, thats your choice, but the default game systems should NOT be that way."
I agree with you on this point, that it shouldn't be that way in the standard game, but it is highly recommended and for me essential to eliminate those problems completely by modding.
I am only afraid, that especially those things will be hardcoded and that I will be stuck with a "finite/limited" economy.
Its strange but I feel that whenever I encounter a harcoded limit, the game gets boring.
My motto here: "everything open to the top" (Alles nach oben offen)
"Yup, i agree, but remember in sr2010 the designed play time frame for a scenario was way too short in duration to include building entire new cities.
Sr2020, at least is said to be designed for longer term scenario play."
Long term playability of every scenario (not those which arent intended for it, like "stay in power for 1 year")
are the alpha and omega.
I like playing one game/scenario for many days/weeks and seeing how the world develops when I slowly take them all over (wheareas I liberate others).
In Hoi2 it wasnt rare that I played one scenario for 1-2 weeks (even with "special mods").
The most time I needed for building/assembling my army, esp. ships, which I produced throughout the game in insane numbers without ever stopping it, even with modded shorter buildtimes I couldn't get enough of it.
Building an extremely big (efficient) army is an essential fun factor for me.
At the point where building has to stop due to an unsolvable limit
(max. capacity reached, max. ressource growth reached, max population, max supply production....., the game gets boring.
"Hhehehe, i dont know, between this and slavery your beginning to worry me
Theyve said sr2020 will have more closed systems than sr2010.Population and resources amoung those mentioned."
Slavery is essential in every war. So for example Germany had in ww2 about 7 million slaves, which were treated differently (depending on their nationality/faith....)
Or USA, UK, Russia etc. had also some (not much less) after the war or during the last days of ww2.
I dont like it, when people run away from my country and I cant do anything about it. It's a ticking bomb and it restricts your range of actions, what means, that you only are allowed to run good economies and can never play with your people.
In reality you can close every border completely. (the costs are another story)
"That would be nationality , not race.I dont think we are going to get something like that in sr2020.BUT hopefully it will make it into the system in the long run as part of the loyalty system.
As for religion, it will play some small part last id heard, but i dont know how."
I mean something between nationality and race.
Nowadays "nationality" means nothing.
In Germany many people have german passports,
while hating Germany and being disloyal towars us (esp. Muslims). You cant do anything against them, because they are legal Germans.
When they reach the majority one day I am sure of it, they will pull out something like a new "Kosovo" - it could be named "Würzburgistan" "Kölnistan" and so on.
So nationality is not the right term, only if nationality means what it meant 100 years ago and if everybody is 100 % loyal.
If we look at the word "race", we discover that many people of certain "races" like the sorbs (ancient eastern european tribe living in saxony), Poles, Croatians or Italians in Germany are well integrated and can be considered german/loyal no matter if they have the german passport.
"Appropriating land due to supply was in sr2010.You could litterly take a nieghbors land away from him simply becuase you had a better infrastructure in that area.
One thing to remember, each hex in a sr2010 map could have population.And that population could get large enough to be a small city.Even produce resources or goods,even though it never got a facility that marked it as a city.
So alot of the mechanics were there, just not the part that actually allowed the hex to show itself as a city via a facility/marker."
Were there any counter measures possible agains "land stealing"? I prefer a system of active settlement policy, what of course can be forbidden by the neighbour. (if the neighbour is not ai)
As I see the hex-pop thing is only a think of showing the (right) sprites. The goal is in this case to show the populated areas in the right way and second to control the already built in meachanics.
"Off topic, but are you from some ex-communist eastern european country ?"
I am from Germany, but was born in Poland.
My parents legally count as displaced persons (like millions of others), and so am very interested in ww2, German history and worldpolitics.
The war has still effects on us.
My life is indirectly, but completely affected, we've lost many things, relatives were shot by partisans/traitors. Only because my great-grandfather was obliged to be in "the party". He was afraid of being resettled to the new gained territories in the ukraine, where they wanted to build new german cities, but no german wanted to go there, so many farmers in silesia signed for membership in the NSDAP in the hope for not being resettled into the ukraine or further away. That was his death sentence.
There were great chances for my family to gain wealth, but the Russians, then the Poles destroyed everything,
took everything away shot people, stole cars, machines, whole industries/buildings.
Whats the most horrific, is that they kept us in a third world country for many many decades and we could only flee when the Iron Curtain was about to break down.
Thats only because my great-grandfather was shot and my great grandmother couldnt flee being alone and having 6 children.
As the russians closed them in, everything was over. They had luck only to be "polonized" and not being shot instantly, like many millions.
They were obliged from one day to another to learn the difficult Polish language.
There are so many horrific stories, where big colons of refugees were hit/attacked by russian planes or rolled over by russian tanks. There were 15.000.000 refugees and about 2 Mio. of them were killed. In the whole war Germany was amongst the nations with the highest losses of people accounting <10 Mio (many "M.I.A.")
The Russians raped hundreds of thousands of women, of whom many commited suicide. Even the German propaganda, which yet showed the russian brutality after the first attacks, stopped doing it, not to frighten the habitants, because things were much worse than every propaganda had imagined before.
Bolshvism was a real disease for great parts of Europe for many many years, it destroyed complete countries. 18 years ago major parts of Poland really looked like in ww2, even in eastern berlin you saw bullet holes, shell splinter holes on old buildings (in 2001!). In my village where we lived as well and ruins everywhere. It looks as vast areas had been cursed for decades. I saw it with my own eyes. The GDR alone has cost us 2 Trillion € so far and it still is a "developing region". My mother said that as she was there once it looked many many times better then Poland. The GDR was a "socialist showcase country" and had the most advanced economy with the broadest range of products in the whole socialist system
Poland was like a big ghetto, where you even couldnt buy butter, bread, something to drink and so on. Everyone operated a "subsistence economy" not to starve. (potatoe/crop field, salad garden, fruit trees, animals) In the 80ies they even took a fixed amount of agricultural production away from every (small) farmer and payed for it with worthless paper.
Whenever they delivered 10 small packages of butter, the whole village ran/drove with the bikes to the shop to get it.
Receipts of goods took ages (3 hrs only for 10 packages). After the receipt they often said, that nothing had been delivered (they hid it for their relatives)
I dont lie, thats what my parents told me and I lived there myself but was about 8 when we left and had not the direct
"stress" and didnt see what was going on.
For being fair I must say, that Poland is not completely to blame for it, because the Russians stole the whole polish production. (not only once people discovered whole trains full of agricultural products (meats,bread...) hidden in oildrums facing towards russia.
People worked almost every day, even on Saturdays, sometimes in 2 shifts and there was full employment. At that time Russia was a restricted zone, not even Poles or other members of the system could get into the "USSR" without special permission.
We (parents, grandparents), as having german backgrounds had never chances to get good jobs/positions there. You could do what you wanted, attending schools like crazy but nothing came out of it, because we werent in "the party" (this time the red one
) and we were germans.
If you wanted to buy chicken-meat you had to drive 30 km with the bike and wait 5 hours and everything was rationed. Every day the half of time was planned for lining up. In bigger cities many people qued up for whole nights and days only to hear "we dont have this or that anymore" and when they asked when the next delivery was to come they said "i dont know". There really was nothing to buy, only empty shelfs with some bottles of vinegar or wodka
.
Nevertheless I dont want to miss the experience I've got there. Its something specific and unique and wont repeat ever again.
It was a nice time and from time to time I travel there (my grandparents (fathers side) still live there).
If anyone has the right to say that communism is the right system, then me!
Sadly Poland gets into another extreme. Now everything there looks almost completely like in USA. The Police uniforms like FBI, Police or firefighters Sirens, Supermarkets, product sortiment (hyper big plastic bottles, extra sweet cakes.......) the whole economic system is without any regulations. Shops are open at 22 oclock i even saw garbage collectors or electricians working after 22 oclock (2007). In GER impossible. It seems as they would have no laws. Everybody does what he likes.
I know that the Russians (at the time of ww2 and later as well) were poor people too, because they didnt even know (ww2 time) what a clock is or how the compote got into the compote-glass....
Why did they want revenche. Intelligent people dont take revenche. History shows that our enemies were not more intelligent then us.
I dont blame anyone, everyone was on the loosers side, there were no winners. I only ask where the whole meat got, whereas the normal russians were very poor as well.
Another impact of ww2:
Look at the ugly architecture due to the bombings. If I had been mayor of a german city I would have demolished every building and build everything completely new (with a modern skyline)
In history lessons they didnt tell us about successful german battles or the (ww2) war in general, only that everything is our fault, that our ancestors were mass murderers, about the resistence, and that we must stay democratic till the "Last Judgement".
Although we dont have any real democracy. They never showed us films of battles or how things went, for example how much of europe was conquered by germany and how strong our army was.
I call it "the dictatorship of the pseudo-democracy"
Whenever it comes to important decisions, nobody asks us. (euro currency introduction (prices doubled, wages halved),new eu constitution, immigration laws, border openings to really poor countries (many thiefs), upcoming opening of the labour market for aliens (of poor countries
we cant play mother Therese, while still having an unemployment rate of 8,4 % (3,5 Mio)), payments to the EU (GER = biggest net-payer), which actively tries to harm our economy/companies/state.)
The only thing wherefor the EU is good, is as a market for our products but nothing more!
What hits the top is, that in fact we have a "single party democracy" with officially 5 parties, but only 2 which you can take for serious. These two have relatively similar politics (social democratic, liberal democratic
in recent time they both have been behaving "left"), hence it makes no sense to vote for anyone.
The other three are sick/crazy: The greens: want to destroy our economy and withdraw from electricity (coal energy produtcion, atomic power generation, oil power production pullout) and "multikulti" They really had success in doing it some years ago. Now we are getting into real trouble. Some experts forecast blackouts in summer, due to the false politics and because everyone is against building new coal-burning power plants. Neither they want coal, nor atomic power.
Wind power or solar power is ridiculous and no real alternative (and it looks ugly, whole Germany is full of it, but it generates nothing), maybe with the tech of 2500 A.D..
The reds: stalinist fanatics, which came out of a fusion of two former parties, whereas one was the successor of the former "SED" of the GDR. They inofficially glorify communist/stalinist ideas.
the liberals: extremely liberal: want to abolish germany as a state sell it to private foreign companies and privatize everything,
As you see: no real alternatives.
Not even conservative or right wing parties - stop - one hyper small party which they constantly are trying to prohibit. The members are being discriminated, provocated openly on every occasion (I thought this would be illegal). They even tried to infiltrate them with own people, who had to bring it in a direction that it could be forbidden. (it didnt work)
Now there is a second attemp running, lets see what will happen.
German isnt even official language of the EU, although its the mostly used first language in europe, ahead of Englisch or French(russia doesnt count as europe) (2nd place as second language)
I see bad times coming for us.
At least in sr 2020 I will be able to let steam off.
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