some suggestions

Talk about on-going development of Supreme Ruler 2020 here. What would you like to see in updates or in a future Supreme Ruler title?

Moderators: Balthagor, Legend, Moderators

Locked
Bronislaw
Corporal
Posts: 7
Joined: Mar 31 2008

some suggestions

Post by Bronislaw »

hi there, i have some wishes for the new supreme ruler 2020. most of it is in my opinion really easily practicable (for example the limits story). the biggest part is something what i want to be able to mod, it needn't to be in the game.

1. the game shouldn't have any limits and if so, the players should be able to mod the limits out of the game.

with limits i mean for example a military units number limit.
particularly 3d games have such restrictive limits, and thats the reason why i have an aversion against 3d games. times change and so do the computers (they get faster), thats what they often forget.
i dont want to build only 65.454 units or 2.000.000 but much more.
i think its only a number or integer type that has to be changed, for example to 32 bit or 64 bit if it wasnt done yet.. the player has to decide whether he wants a limit or not (by modding) and i dont want limitations. nobody should impose his will on some poor player, which encounters a screen like "limit of 300 units is reached, no further production of units possible".
i decide how much i want to produce/train.

in every game i tend to build as many units as my computer is able to process, for example i built in hoi2 more then 10.000 divisions, flotillas and squadrons. the next time i play it, i will make even much more.
plz dont make any limit. limits kill the fun of a game forever. real tacticians can make their own limits but not at the cost of others.
the limit should only be the own computer. i like massive scale wars, where i attack with millions of troops more countries simultanously.
i am lying so much hope into the game, that it will be the best game ever.

2. there shouldn`t be any ressource limits and you should be able to modificate and create any techs and new upgrades of factories, which have an unrealisticly high capacity. ( i dont like active cheats, but to mod it into the game that it has some kind of justification and story á la "miracoulous breakthrough")
so for example smallest regions could (if i mod this into the game when the possibility for it is given by the code) make a sudden successful strike on a big neighbour.
what would be also perfect would be, if you could research techs which make it possible to build (special) mines and other ressource producing buildings on hex-fields where there is no ressource of such type (or that you can find it exactly at the place where you want to build the mine) and exploiting 100 % of it if you have the right tech. good example is germany which made stuff even of **** (inferior ore, brown coal, wood, alcohol, water) and much of the knowledge is lost today! i dont talk about having this in game but to be able to do this by modding. plz no limits in modding. its clear that the game eninge is untouchable, but the decoration is indeed if everything goes right.

3. it ought to be possible to mod the consumption (by the population, by the military) of every material and set it to low(est) numbers by choice/tech or that you can build some new unit which has no supply consumption or a very low one.
so for example i could control a hyper military force almost without any supply demands for fuel, supply goods and so on, even when owning a minor nation.

3. it would be well if everything could be reversible. i mean, that you can release any annexed nation and attack it as often as you want.
hoi2 is a good example for this.
there i attacked one nation again and again after annexing and releasing it, i know that i am a sadist and i like to play really long term games.
for example its not rare that i play matches beyond the year 1975 given the fact that i start 1936. sometimes it takes weeks for one scenario!
in superpower 2 the game was over when you had the world in your hands, because you couldnt free any annexed nations.

5. the effects of nuclear attacks should also be reversible, i mean such crap like endless radiation, neverending shrinkage of population. in reality after two weeks you are relatively safe, maybe the athmosphere causes trouble for some months but after it, everything is ok, besides the fact that everything has to be rebuilt and the population to grow.

in reality mankind could easily survive any nuclear warfare, so plz make it possible to rebuild everything after even a 30.000 MT exchange, no matter if it takes 20 or 50 years in game.

in hoi2 there was the problem that the population never recovered in those provinces which were attacked and finally you had no manpower. the fact is that there will be a population growth at any time, when stimulated rightly (by a backward, repressive regime? that forces every woman to have 10 children :-) or by imposing poverty on the majority of ppl.).
plz make something you could use to trigger your pop.growth to unbelievable numbers. like 20 % per year in a third world country under the rule of the right regime.
and the story with emigration, that you can set emigration to almost or exactly 0 (by force when needed) like in the gdr, where almost noone could flee without being shot!

my desire is, that i can make nuclear war as often as i want no matter if i attack the same nation 10 times whenever they have rebuilt their economy.
in global power there was a limit which told you "game over" when you filled your lifetime permission of lets say shooting 50 big nukes at a random enemy. that was an unnessecary paternalism. i decide when there is time for doomsday if at all, but not by not using nukes!

another thing is: is it possible to make nuke tests in the water, neutral area or in the own country, even on the own people if they cause trouble? i mean simply to fire nukes on whererever you want if you have the right techs.
it would be very nice if you could warn a human player or the ai by letting explode a nuke in front of his coast. nothing better then looking at an aesthetic big 50 MT nuke explosion in nobodys land for purposes of general amusement. talking about the limit of nukes i think it shouldt be under 100 MT. 100 MT are easily feasible with our techs.
--> tsar bomb ( i know it was only for prestige and not easily usable, but why not in 2020?)

6. the room to mod units of a completely new class into the game like battlecruisers, heavy cruisers, light cruisers, patrol boats, mine boats?..... and battleships (it is said that they will be more important in the future as the americans are researching new fast and plane killing railguns with an astonishing range of more hundred km)
by the years 2020-2030 it could be realized.

a war without having every ship class/type which was introduced in the modern age and those impressing big ships is boring. nowadays there are no real impressive ships. i am a fetishist of big fleets. in hoi2 i had over 200 fleets with á 30 ships/squadrons.
its not only about strength and usability, but often prestige and of course it would be good to research new techs which strengthen the position of the battleships against the CV and CVL. who says that it is not possible to bring every type of weapon to a new quality of efficiency.

everything can be made with the right will/decision. today we have the concept of small ships but with the right techs of the future everything can change, primarily if we experience big tensions or even big wars in the future. wars or times of tension often lead to new and bigger weapons. there is an unforeseen outpouring of military knowledge and tech. this converts after a certain period in civilian techs. (example atomic bomb, medicine in ww2, engine efficiency..........)
every type of war has its own inventions. big continental wars cry at big panzers a la maus or P 1500 or at mörser karl, dicke berta, dora......
big water or isle wars cry at CVs, LCV, naval bombers........
some annihilation wars need good bombers and so on,
so plz no limits with the argumentation that "the warfare is likely to be of a spcial type for example with small weapons" every dictator or leader in the game should decide by himself what kind of weapons he wants to research, not only what most people would do.

7. another thing is that i would like to build and destroy/abandon cities. for example if i dont like to have a city straight to the border of a powerful neighbour and want to evacuate my people to another place.

for example i want to destroy berlin because its too near to poland and build in a hex field of my choice my city of desire. cost doesnt matter, if i want to resettle lets say 4 mio people. in china it is common to resettle people when they make some big projects. (Three Gorges Dam,.....)
to be able to actively allocate your population to a hex of your choice would also be superb. (maybe in an addon later)
and plz no population limit and the aggriculture should be moddable in a way that a country like switzerland can feed with 10 farms 20 billion people, no matter how long it takes that the population reaches that amount!
at last (for addon) there is another thing which concerns me
its the thing with "national" and "occupied/annexed" provinces, that they arent loyal towards you.
what is if i want to conquer with germany the old lost territories and integrate them into germany by reallocating some german people there so it becomes a national province. it would be really nice if feasible in a later addon. maybe introducing in future a system of "nationality, race, religion" with homogenity as source of stability and diversity as destabilizing certain governmental types. so for example cuba is very diversified, communist and relatively stable. (unconsidered the embargo or economic effects which also cause some unrest)
countries like france, germany (still to a lesser degree) which are a type of "social democracy" are relatively unstable because of many disadvantaged and unassimilated immigrants. (unconsidered their relatively high wealth) if both were equal in an economic way, france/germany would be less stable then cuba.
if we take the religious impact into account, the situation gets even more complex. maybe one day it will work to develop an addon for display and play with it.

ok i hope that was it, i hope that everything will work out,

thanks
stegosarus_army
Corporal
Posts: 4
Joined: Mar 05 2008

Post by stegosarus_army »

have you even played supreme ruler?
this isnt hearts of iron2
killerflood
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 674
Joined: Jun 30 2007

Post by killerflood »

i doubt he has

though i do like the idea of releasing an annexed country and moving citizens/building cities.

bad thing is its being released about a month from now. (and if i heard balthagor say this "its not simcity")
Economically people **** on me

"How come I have this mental image of tkobo's tanks running over these fleeing soldiers, saying 'what was that? oh, just a speed bump'... :)"
User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 22106
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Post by Balthagor »

I don't think I've said that, but it is a reasonably accurate statement. At the same time, don't discourage people from offering suggestions, we like to hear feedback.

Welcome to the forum Bronislaw, I've not had time to read your post yet (buried in deadlines at the moment), but I'm sure a long post like this will generate some discussions. We'll try and give it a read at some point soon.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com
killerflood
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 674
Joined: Jun 30 2007

Re: some suggestions

Post by killerflood »

Bronislaw wrote:hi there, i have some wishes for the new supreme ruler 2020. most of it is in my opinion really easily practicable (for example the limits story). the biggest part is something what i want to be able to mod, it needn't to be in the game.

1. the game shouldn't have any limits and if so, the players should be able to mod the limits out of the game.
there are no limits as far as i can tell. its just like HOI2 you need manpower though it dosnt run out as quickly (say 50-200+ people per brigade).

with limits i mean for example a military units number limit.
particularly 3d games have such restrictive limits, and thats the reason why i have an aversion against 3d games. times change and so do the computers (they get faster), thats what they often forget.
i dont want to build only 65.454 units or 2.000.000 but much more.
i think its only a number or integer type that has to be changed, for example to 32 bit or 64 bit if it wasnt done yet.. the player has to decide whether he wants a limit or not (by modding) and i dont want limitations. nobody should impose his will on some poor player, which encounters a screen like "limit of 300 units is reached, no further production of units possible".
i decide how much i want to produce/train.

in every game i tend to build as many units as my computer is able to process, for example i built in hoi2 more then 10.000 divisions, flotillas and squadrons. the next time i play it, i will make even much more.
plz dont make any limit. limits kill the fun of a game forever. real tacticians can make their own limits but not at the cost of others.
the limit should only be the own computer. i like massive scale wars, where i attack with millions of troops more countries simultanously.
i am lying so much hope into the game, that it will be the best game ever.

2. there shouldn`t be any ressource limits and you should be able to modificate and create any techs and new upgrades of factories, which have an unrealisticly high capacity.
it makes it more realistic for resource limits plus it would be to cheap. say you get all you needs from 1 factory? thats perposterous

( i dont like active cheats, but to mod it into the game that it has some kind of justification and story á la "miracoulous breakthrough")
so for example smallest regions could (if i mod this into the game when the possibility for it is given by the code) make a sudden successful strike on a big neighbour.
what would be also perfect would be, if you could research techs which make it possible to build (special) mines and other ressource producing buildings on hex-fields where there is no ressource of such type (or that you can find it exactly at the place where you want to build the mine) and exploiting 100 % of it if you have the right tech. good example is germany which made stuff even of **** (inferior ore, brown coal, wood, alcohol, water) and much of the knowledge is lost today! i dont talk about having this in game but to be able to do this by modding. plz no limits in modding. its clear that the game eninge is untouchable, but the decoration is indeed if everything goes right.

3. it ought to be possible to mod the consumption (by the population, by the military) of every material and set it to low(est) numbers by choice/tech or that you can build some new unit which has no supply consumption or a very low one.
this would really be just what you would want (i dont see many people wanting this whole-heartedly) its all about making a game thats not a push-over economically (thats where cheats come in :-) )

so for example i could control a hyper military force almost without any supply demands for fuel, supply goods and so on, even when owning a minor nation.

3. it would be well if everything could be reversible. i mean, that you can release any annexed nation and attack it as often as you want.
hoi2 is a good example for this.
i actually like the thought of this idea and support this whole-heartedly

there i attacked one nation again and again after annexing and releasing it, i know that i am a sadist and i like to play really long term games.
for example its not rare that i play matches beyond the year 1975 given the fact that i start 1936. sometimes it takes weeks for one scenario!
in superpower 2 the game was over when you had the world in your hands, because you couldnt free any annexed nations.

5. the effects of nuclear attacks should also be reversible, i mean such crap like endless radiation, neverending shrinkage of population. in reality after two weeks you are relatively safe, maybe the athmosphere causes trouble for some months but after it, everything is ok, besides the fact that everything has to be rebuilt and the population to grow.
im not sure about it being safe in only two weeks. look at the crisis of Chernobyl, its realitivly safe now but still has a minor radiation cling to it. though this never ending radiation and pop-loss does seem unrealistic you are only playing a scenario that would probably last...say ??-20 years in game time?

in reality mankind could easily survive any nuclear warfare, so plz make it possible to rebuild everything after even a 30.000 MT exchange, no matter if it takes 20 or 50 years in game.
possibly human kind could survive nuclear warfare. we would be taking maybe a 2000 year step backward though

"I do not know which weapons WW3 will be fought with but WW4 will be fought wit sticks and stones"-Albert Einstein


in hoi2 there was the problem that the population never recovered in those provinces which were attacked and finally you had no manpower. the fact is that there will be a population growth at any time, when stimulated rightly (by a backward, repressive regime? that forces every woman to have 10 children :-) or by imposing poverty on the majority of ppl.).
plz make something you could use to trigger your pop.growth to unbelievable numbers. like 20 % per year in a third world country under the rule of the right regime.
and the story with emigration, that you can set emigration to almost or exactly 0 (by force when needed) like in the gdr, where almost noone could flee without being shot!

my desire is, that i can make nuclear war as often as i want no matter if i attack the same nation 10 times whenever they have rebuilt their economy.
in global power there was a limit which told you "game over" when you filled your lifetime permission of lets say shooting 50 big nukes at a random enemy. that was an unnessecary paternalism. i decide when there is time for doomsday if at all, but not by not using nukes!

another thing is: is it possible to make nuke tests in the water, neutral area or in the own country, even on the own people if they cause trouble? i mean simply to fire nukes on whererever you want if you have the right techs.
This seems pretty useless no offense
it would be very nice if you could warn a human player or the ai by letting explode a nuke in front of his coast. nothing better then looking at an aesthetic big 50 MT nuke explosion in nobodys land for purposes of general amusement. talking about the limit of nukes i think it shouldt be under 100 MT. 100 MT are easily feasible with our techs.
--> tsar bomb ( i know it was only for prestige and not easily usable, but why not in 2020?)

6. the room to mod units of a completely new class into the game like battlecruisers, heavy cruisers, light cruisers, patrol boats, mine boats?..... and battleships (it is said that they will be more important in the future as the americans are researching new fast and plane killing railguns with an astonishing range of more hundred km)
by the years 2020-2030 it could be realized.
hmmm....would be nice but i dont see this happening. (though creating your own units would be nice)

a war without having every ship class/type which was introduced in the modern age and those impressing big ships is boring. nowadays there are no real impressive ships. i am a fetishist of big fleets. in hoi2 i had over 200 fleets with á 30 ships/squadrons.
its not only about strength and usability, but often prestige and of course it would be good to research new techs which strengthen the position of the battleships against the CV and CVL. who says that it is not possible to bring every type of weapon to a new quality of efficiency.

everything can be made with the right will/decision. today we have the concept of small ships but with the right techs of the future everything can change, primarily if we experience big tensions or even big wars in the future. wars or times of tension often lead to new and bigger weapons. there is an unforeseen outpouring of military knowledge and tech. this converts after a certain period in civilian techs. (example atomic bomb, medicine in ww2, engine efficiency..........)
every type of war has its own inventions. big continental wars cry at big panzers a la maus or P 1500 or at mörser karl, dicke berta, dora......
big water or isle wars cry at CVs, LCV, naval bombers........
some annihilation wars need good bombers and so on,
so plz no limits with the argumentation that "the warfare is likely to be of a spcial type for example with small weapons" every dictator or leader in the game should decide by himself what kind of weapons he wants to research, not only what most people would do.

7. another thing is that i would like to build and destroy/abandon cities. for example if i dont like to have a city straight to the border of a powerful neighbour and want to evacuate my people to another place.
i see some fun putting this in but i do remember balthagor saying something like "this isnt simcity" (just think making your own megatroplis...oooo that sounds enticing)

for example i want to destroy berlin because its too near to poland and build in a hex field of my choice my city of desire. cost doesnt matter, if i want to resettle lets say 4 mio people. in china it is common to resettle people when they make some big projects. (Three Gorges Dam,.....)
to be able to actively allocate your population to a hex of your choice would also be superb. (maybe in an addon later)
and plz no population limit and the aggriculture should be moddable in a way that a country like switzerland can feed with 10 farms 20 billion people, no matter how long it takes that the population reaches that amount!
at last (for addon) there is another thing which concerns me
its the thing with "national" and "occupied/annexed" provinces, that they arent loyal towards you.

they really just didnt know how to empliment any mathematical equation that will represent loyalty gain/loss

what is if i want to conquer with germany the old lost territories and integrate them into germany by reallocating some german people there so it becomes a national province. it would be really nice if feasible in a later addon. maybe introducing in future a system of "nationality, race, religion" with homogenity as source of stability and diversity as destabilizing certain governmental types. so for example cuba is very diversified, communist and relatively stable. (unconsidered the embargo or economic effects which also cause some unrest)
countries like france, germany (still to a lesser degree) which are a type of "social democracy" are relatively unstable because of many disadvantaged and unassimilated immigrants. (unconsidered their relatively high wealth) if both were equal in an economic way, france/germany would be less stable then cuba.
if we take the religious impact into account, the situation gets even more complex. maybe one day it will work to develop an addon for display and play with it.

ok i hope that was it, i hope that everything will work out,

thanks
if i seemed to offend you in anyway im sorry i just wanted to voice my opinion :wink: .
Economically people **** on me

"How come I have this mental image of tkobo's tanks running over these fleeing soldiers, saying 'what was that? oh, just a speed bump'... :)"
User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 12397
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Post by tkobo »

On number 1.

In sr2010, even population wasnt a cap on the number of units, becuase some units used/required no soldiers/popultion/manpower/etc.

The two that come to mind are the UAV strategic bombers.

As for alot of the other numbers,they seem to be asking for the ability to go mod wild.
Which is something id agree with alot,especially IF the modding is easier to grasp this time round.

As for the radiation and nuke use suggestions.Well there was no radiation effects , per se, in sr2010 and the devs are keeping close to the vest on how this will be handled in sr2020.
I suspect though, that it will be the same.No radiation effects at all :cry:

As for the moving of cities and population,im all for that.Im pretty sure the devs have made comments on this ,but sadly i dont remember what they said :oops:
I always wanted those refuge camps to be dynamically usable.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM
dust off
General
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sep 23 2003
Location: UK

Post by dust off »

I always wanted those refuge camps to be dynamically usable.
I vaguely remember discussions about refugee camps, field hospitals.
killerflood
Brigadier Gen.
Posts: 674
Joined: Jun 30 2007

Post by killerflood »

tkobo wrote: I always wanted those refuge camps to be dynamically usable.
just think....actual roleplay as a dictator!!!! :lol: :lol:
Economically people **** on me

"How come I have this mental image of tkobo's tanks running over these fleeing soldiers, saying 'what was that? oh, just a speed bump'... :)"
User avatar
Lightbringer
General
Posts: 2973
Joined: May 23 2006
Location: Texas

Post by Lightbringer »

Not refugee camps... "Guest Worker Hostels". :wink:

-Light
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” -Winston Churchill
Bronislaw
Corporal
Posts: 7
Joined: Mar 31 2008

reply

Post by Bronislaw »

@ stagosarus_army:

No, I still haven't played SR 2010, because I recently discovered it and only tried the demo a little and am looking forward for the new version 2020.
"HoI 2 DD A" is the best reference I have, because no game had such addiction potential like Hoi2 ( I still play it almost every day)

@ killerflood: In my opinion annexing and releasing countries
is one of the most important things to be able to play that game
infinitously and start over again and again, though with a military force
that gets bigger and bigger that you can crush your enemy better and faster
every repeated time you do it.
I now that that its not too long for being the game released, so maybe everything could be realized in an addon or be made modfificable (that would be best).
In Hoi2 (sorry to talk about that game) modding could be done so simply and you understood the most of it promptly, because it was made in an good understandable "language", but it wasnt enough in my opinion. I like the concept of total modification, without limits in tech, events, economy system....

referring to the second post:
"there are no limits as far as i can tell. its just like HOI2 you need manpower though it dosnt run out as quickly (say 50-200+ people per brigade)."



does the menpower recover in sr 2010 unlike hoi2 where it does or I am stuck with a limited army size lets say 10 mio soldiers as germany?
In hoi i even modded the techs/events that the menpower recovered at +200 per day (completely other scale) and made many other mods for shorter production times or ministers that gave you new ressource growth of certain types (negative or positive: multiple choice), so for example I made a "Herr Metall", "Herr Supply Efficiency" and so on :-)
I could exactly control how much ressources i wanted to have additionally and if too much for my flavor i decided to "exploit" less.


"it makes it more realistic for resource limits plus it would be to cheap. say you get all you needs from 1 factory? thats perposterous"

if realistic or not, in my opinion they could enable it for modding to trigger the game fun.
sometimes i want to have only 1 factory, meet all needs with it and not bothering with economy,
population, supply or space problems but crush all enemies with the biggest army force the world has every seen. (and dont say thats not the right game for it, i exactly want to do this in this game not in a boring war craft)
or sometimes i want to simulate an "Uber-Human-Race" that given the fact that it lives in a small nation,
it can develop hyper techs, despite their apparently hopeless situation. in hoi2 i played for example the 1944 secenario with germany and had at first big problems to keep my territory so i was stuck with only 10 provinces at some point, but then when i discovered some new self made techs and triggered events, i got so mighty and could produce and upkeep an enormous force so i could fight on all 4 fronts and chase them all back at once to where they were coming from. there were fights where 200 best equipped german divisions in 3 provinces alone fighted agains 100 russian ones.
i like such style of scenarios to play, or that you mod poland 1938 (war starts 1939) in a way that it can crush germany in less then 5 days and fight russia back beyond moscow simultanously)

its only that you can change some numbers and going into unrealistic 1000ers factors (plz no upper limit like efficiency 1000 %) , but who cares about realism, if a player wants to do that, when he likes it.
the game seems to have great potential to become the best of this type, if no limits are preset/hardcoded, like in warcraft II (or even worse III) where you could only build 300 units and every farm could only support 4 soldiers. no change possible and fun killed forever, suddenly (really) as i found out about it (esp. the first one). i left it immediately and searched for solutions on the internet to "hack" it away, but no solutions and since then i didnt touch it a second time. or starcraft, where the same problem occured, but where i found a promising "patch" which promised to raise the limit to after all 65.000, but as i tried it, after having built 2000 units it was over, so again i deinstalled it immediatly and forgot about it. (65.000 would be still too less and i know that its only some stupid hardcoded integer type of 16 bit or sth. like that, why not setting everything to 64 or 128 bit). (in master of orion II the same problem and here again i left it immediately and never touched it again).
from time to time i really think that i want some day to code my own game, not to hav to face some preset limits, which i cant change.
but programming is too difficult and time demanding, so i will have to postpone it to another time.
the example is maybe bad, but you know what i am talking about. in starcraft ressources get depleted and thats another minus point.

"this would really be just what you would want (i dont see many people wanting this whole-heartedly) its all about making a game thats not a push-over economically (thats where cheats come in ) "

and again, these are only some numbers that i should be able to change during the game by new self made techs, in no case i said that it should be pre-made in any scenario, but the modding ability ought to be given.
I dont like real cheats, where i ve to type over and over the same line only to get some ressources/things. I want to built it into a game in a way that it has its own justification, like a hyper techjump or a miracle for gods choosen nation and so on, but no boring cheat.
Even if its in the end the same, for me its a big difference if it its a "cheat" or a "hypertech which reduces oil demand to 0.0000001 litres" of course i would do it in many mory steps. at first to set it at -10 %, then -10 % again, then -20 % and so on.
being able to build certain mines on fields without lets say ore ressources would also be nice, not to care about where there is a predefined ressource but to control everything when having the right technology (that you of course would have to mod yourself, what i would make with pleasure)




"im not sure about it being safe in only two weeks. look at the crisis of Chernobyl, its realitivly safe now but still has a minor radiation cling to it. though this never ending radiation and pop-loss does seem unrealistic you are only playing a scenario that would probably last...say ??-20 years in game time? "



An atomic bomb is in long term much better then an accident like in Chernobyl, because the substances distinguish from each other in some way.
An atomic bomb sets free many short living (radioactive) substances (uran, plutonium, deuterium?) while in tschernobyl there were released very dangerous long-lasting radioactive ones, for example caesium, strontium
Of course you can build a cobalt bomb whose effects last for some years or a gold bomb which is only dangerous for some days related to the inderect effects, not the explosion itself. explosion is similar.
What i was talking about in my suggestion has no relation to anything what i ve seen in any game, but you never know. maybe some environment fanatic or pacifist wants it to be included in the game, so no one can use atomic or hydrogen bombs on a big scale without having a bad conscience or ruining the world economy forever.
In Reality you cant make a normal war today like it was in former times (I dont like wars, where I could become a victim or lose my life :-) ), because everytime you want to conquer someone like france, britain or russia and many others , they shoot every atomic rocket on you, they have so i want to play war at least on the computer. real, endless war with times of peace and arming races, founding new nations, crushing others, kicking alliance partners while being at war with others, where they help(ed) me and "eat them". in hoi2 you couldnt ban your own alliance members while being at war and "colour the territory with your national colour". sometimes my military was such big, that i could confront more world powers at once and have some lunches (eat minors) besides the big fights.

If there was a justification like that a certain war is winnable, than war is ok, if the causalties are not too high (and the enemy loses more men and material then the attacking nation) , but today thats not possible. Its even better to be soldier, so you have better chances to survice then a civilian.




"possibly human kind could survive nuclear warfare. we would be taking maybe a 2000 year step backward though

"I do not know which weapons WW3 will be fought with but WW4 will be fought wit sticks and stones"-Albert Einstein"



i know that einsteing citation :-)
it depends on how it is done and how many people survive the direct attacks, and then we would indeed fall back again into dark ages, but could in maybe 100 years get out of it and reach the same tech levels like we have today but probably with other concepts and designs of everything (culture, living standard, architecture....) (it depends on how much knowledge, date, info..... is lost and what people have learned of that war and the failures of the past)
in such case we would have much less people and there could be also a problem with ressources, because to start an economy and bring it through a new epoch of the industrial age we would need much coal, oil and so on, which will be really scarce ressources then, if we exploit everything at the pace like we do today before a nuclear war comes. it will be difficult to search for coal/iron ore 2 km deep under the earth from scratch without machines, pumps, filters, light bulbs, compressed air bottles and techs at all.
no nation can turn into a hyper high technology nation without getting through some kind of new dirty industrial revolution.
even today every emerging nation like brazil, india, china rely on coal, because its the only reliable and still cheap solution. there is no other way to develop to a third world country today. in the far future i m sure that we will be able to do everything only using sand, water, air and the right tech to deal with those infinite ressources.

(to represent in the game through the ability to build every ressource building everywhere and research exploitation efficiency techs (>100 % efficiency as well) for each type of terrain, no matter what ressource if so, is shown under the earth on the map)

but no one can build solar cells, tvs, magazines, combine harvesters or efficient turbines from nothing, not having at least some reliable strong electric energy. what i want to say is, that some stages of developement are needed and even with advanced techs we cant start again immediately in the 21st centurey, when after a nuclear war.
at this point i can recommend some films: "threads" and "a day after"


"This seems pretty useless no offense"


this could be easily programmed, thats a thing of only allowing to shoot it (nuke) everywhere.



"hmmm....would be nice but i dont see this happening. (though creating your own units would be nice)"

a war without great ships, only playing out the concept of small arms is relatively boring.
small arms are good, but i want every kind of ship/weapon in my army that has existed or still does exist.
as far as i know the americans used battlehips at least 1990 in the first gulf war and maybe they still have some of them.
if certain techs are developped well, we could experience a new kind of sea battles. the time we have today is relatively safe and without bigger tensions, so there are no real weapons, which would be needed for bigger, massive and long term wars. what we have today is in no way representative what could be done, if no cost and no work is avoided, when it comes to mere survival. thats a matter of ideology. democracies (the vast majority of our nations) are a little bit slow in those things and you need much conviction (recent american wars) of the population to make big projects / wars or a big danger (america in ww2).
another example is germany in ww2. as a relatively small nation they had almost every type of weapon possible and many really big ones and would have had even a mass production of everything, if you had given them some more time. that was a completely different ideology, that allowed this, maybe it was because of the fastly growing dangers for the fatherland as well, esp. at the end. but people were quiet, only when they realized that war wasnt to win anymore, there was unrest and the famous attempt.

i only want to say that no restriction to certain types of warfare should be made. you never know what will occur in 2020, 2030...........


"they really just didnt know how to empliment any mathematical equation that will represent loyalty gain/loss"

maybe making the formula moddable or both formulas (pop growth and loaylty story) or use some general formula which does not care about certain type of number (e.g. small, middle) but which covers everything possible (range from 1 man to 100 quantillion people).
there are so many mathematical functions which could be used for it :-)

you didnt offend me in any way, i m not so simply offendable. everybody should have his own opinion




@ Balthagor:

its not that I want to have everything and at once, but being able to mod it or that it is made in a later addon or patch, so everybody can control every aspect of the game and trigger the growth of certain cities, while abandon others and not living with some static buildings on the wrong place forever. It could be a very simple system, and it would be ok.
I want for example a berlin of 20 Mio habitants, or Yamassoukro becoming the top city in the world.
maybe you could at least allow savegame edit, so some flaws or irregularities could be changed after having started a game. (for emergency reasons like in hoi2 to correct uneven numbers of anti air, because in some provinces there were 0,0005 AA, which dissalowed to build 10 AA, so you could only do 9 or edit it in the save game an remove the ,0005)

I know anyway that you will make a good work having seen the demo of sr 2010 with its nice design ( i like more 2d then 3d, because it allows more units to move), but as far as i know, sr 2010 has no world map, is that right? if it has one, probably i will buy it. i couldnt find any information about it, so i hesitate to buy it.

at last my critics/suggestions are general, and dont refer specially to sr 2010. I ve had some experience in playing some geo political simulations and (older) rts games, so I am anxious that there could be something which robbs the fun off the game.
And plz dont let the leaders or minister die, although it wouldnt be realistic, but maybe making some excel file, where i can edit the death time and set it to year 99.999 and plz no sudden death by hardcoded random events. everything should stay as it was or that you can reverse it to a former state. in hoi2 you could mod the minister or leader files in a way that no one could die and you could actually have Wilhelm II in 1975 as head of state.
I m looking forward to buy this new game, as soon as it comes out, so dont worry :-)


@ tkobo


good to hear that the pop wasnt a cap on the number of certain types of soldiers, but you could not build every type of unit in unlimited numbers, is that right?
what would be if i wanted 100 million ground forces, but instead had to choose only robots. a real soldiers has to be a human being, maybe a small part robot or machine, but a war without real men is nothing, no matter how realistic an enormous army would be
it would be ok, if active soldiers would be subtracted from the population which of course would have to recover (no limits), or is it like this?
so for example it would be funny to support as andorra 10.000.000 million soldiers and having their normal population of 81.000.

plz no cap, even on UAV strategic bombers
maybe introducing some option for the tacticians like "100 unit limit" and "without any hardcoded limits" or make it modable so everybody could make own limits but of course not only set it to 99.999 but abolish the limit completely if choosen so. maybe i want 100.000 bombers (if my computer can process it, but whats if i want to play that game in 10 years, when the technology standard is a completely better one)


for me it doesnt matter if modding is easy, but plz no such things like using hexeditor and reading some hieroglyphs, but data which you can open for example with the textedit programm or winword or even ms visual studio would be ok, and so on, or special programms which we get with the game like a developers kit :-)

the radiation story: radiation is only good if relatively short or if you can research a tech that you can for example build pionieer troops which can delete it hex by hex. i dont want to wait 900 years for an area to get clean after an attack on an atomic power plant.

moving population: i dont talk about refugee camps (although its a great idea), maybe as a kind of cheap city building, but i really want to create and name cities and allocate my pop there. not that its something static which cant be changed in number or location.
if someone has the money or power he should be allowed to do it.
look at the arabic states, how fast they grow and how big their cities are becoming
and america,
which will have a pop of 400 mio in 2040. some cities which werent here 100 years ago are now among the biggest in the world
(shenzen and other merging markets cities)

what would be best, would be to enslave people of conquered nations, which couldnt flee in time and allocate them to factories, labour camps and so on. this would make the part of saving the own people from the enemy even more important.
and to liquidate them to hurt the enemy in long term or assimilate a part of them and "reeducate" people.
but for this every nations people would have to have an own kind of identity. (sorry for it if its politically incorrect, but its a game, not the reality, which we cant change anyway)


i hope that i said everything i should have said,
User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 12397
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Post by tkobo »

As far as units go, ive personally had well over 5k and Moose (another forum member)(im pretty sure it was him) had over 10k.

I pushed this very hard during play and im firmly convinced that in sr2010, there was no real cap on the amount of units you could have.

There was a cap however on the amount of efficient units you could have.The key was unit efficiency was dictated by the amount of money you could pay for training,maintance and salary.

Now since you can basically turn these off and pay nothing,they didnt set a cap on unit numbers.BUT since sooner or later you'd go beyond what you could afford to pay for unit efficiency,there was a cap on how many units you could have that at a particular efficiency level.
And dont forget those soldiers still are part of your population that consume food,water, other resources and goods.Which cost money and are the likely cap creator,if one actually exists ,on total count of units.

Something very important to keep in mind on amount of units, is that each unit slows the game down.Put enough units on a map and many people will find the game unplayable,because it will be so slow.
And though they may improve the engine,even the new version will have a saturation point.

Refuge camps existed in sr2010, in the editor at least.I cant think of a premade scenario that even used them though.
This is mostly ,i think, becuase there had been alot of talk and no little amount of effort to get them into sr2010 as an active facility type,but sadly they didnt make the feature cut.

Also, cities can be completely wiped off the map in sr2010, but not new ones built.
Im hoping that somewhere in the sr series down the road, we will see the ability to found new cities and herd populations.
But i dont expect it in this next version -sr2020.

Forced labor gets brought up alot by us would-be dictators here in the forums,and yes its also something i would like to see in the future.BUT agian its something i dont expect to see in the next incarnation.

Currently in sr2010, you can grow an existant cities population to the point that it overides certain settings,ive done that :lol: I got the population in chicago alone, to over 20million :lol:

In sr2020, the devs have said the population system will be more closed than it was in sr2010, so they are moving in a direction that will support this type of thing.We just need to convince them, that its something that will improve the game and win over more customers in their target group,and hence get them to add it to that long list on features they have for furture improvements in the sr series.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM
User avatar
Legend
General
Posts: 2531
Joined: Sep 08 2002
Human: Yes
Location: Ancaster, Ontario - BattleGoat Studios
Contact:

Post by Legend »

I just made use of my new mouse... Logitech MX620
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_ ... 7&cl=us,en
(Revolutionary hyper-fast scroll wheel: Fly through long documents at hyperspeed with the nearly frictionless alloy scroll wheel. Shift to precise, click-to-click scrolling for navigating lists, slides, and image collections....Scroll through 10,000 lines in just 7 seconds—and stop on a dime.)

I would like to mention for new readers of this forum... that we have a core team of 4 that is FOUR people... and an offsite graphic artist (who is handling all graphics and 3D models)... so that is a grand total of 5 people on our project.

Some of the suggestions made are in 2020...(No unit limit - for example)
While we do like to see more ideas, with a small studio many game features need to be balanced with work load. If you are passionate about more features... then tell people you know about the game. Write letters to military organizations. Hop on those online review sites. Help us create a buzz about SR2020... and maybe we'll be able to hire another person and then we'll be able to add a few more features to future titles.

I do you all enjoy SR2020. May you find yourself spending much of your time ruling the world.
User avatar
Legend
General
Posts: 2531
Joined: Sep 08 2002
Human: Yes
Location: Ancaster, Ontario - BattleGoat Studios
Contact:

Post by Legend »

follow up...

look at this guy - http://chunzhu.wordpress.com/2008/04/03 ... -xinjiang/ - he's talking about our game. That's what we like to see! 8)
User avatar
Lightbringer
General
Posts: 2973
Joined: May 23 2006
Location: Texas

Post by Lightbringer »

Wow! When Y'all said you wanted Governments to use it for training purposes, I never thought about the Chinese using it for econ training!

-Light
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” -Winston Churchill
ChunZhu
Corporal
Posts: 8
Joined: Apr 05 2008
Location: Beijing, China
Contact:

Post by ChunZhu »

Haha, I'm glad I can give you guys some extra publicity and from the looks of it, at least a few people visited my blog as well. Looks like a symbiotic relationship to me...

...oh, and I can't wait for SR 2020 to come out!
Locked

Return to “Development - 2020”