Blog - Geography Lessons

red · Post by **red** » Nov 27 2006

Can blocs be redefined through modding? How many CVARs files would there be (one per bloc?)?

Post by **Balthagor** » Nov 27 2006

The current design is set to support redefining what regions are in a bloc through an external file (think of it as a blueprint file that lists all blocs and all their regions) but this is not yet implemented. There will be a maximum number of regions in a bloc, currently the maximum is 32. There are also a maximum of 32 blocs. How blocs and regions works for gameplay purposes is not finalized so I won't go into details other than to say that playing within a bloc will allow for scenarios as seen in the previous game. The possiblities beyond that are being explored.

Interaction from a region in one bloc to a region in another bloc is currently not possible or expected, but there are some "advantages" to this new system... (as I leave everyone hanging on the edge of their seats...)

How the CVars will be handled for the final is undecided ATM, we are building the data in an Access database this time but this will need to be output for import by the mapeditor. The output format has not yet been decided and will dictate how the files work.

red · Post by **red** » Nov 27 2006

I don't quite understand how it works. This blueprint is used to define, say, region #57 on the map editor's internals as region #2 on "New England"? If that's right, then could I define a bloc with all of the US regions and all of the Chinese regions, then group them appropriately? Would this be handled through a "Custom"-directory replacement so modders simply package it with their scenario, or would they be overwriting a very important default file?

More importantly, do I understand right that this single-map approach means second-order regions will be built by grouping their constituent parts? I can't reconcile that with the region limit, since in SR2010 to group many regions into only one playable required all regions occupy one of the 32 slots; are you painting the terrain and lowest-level borders now, and then filling in the hexes for ownership/loyalty and regenerating varibles files for the upper-level scenarios?

Um, unless I misunderstood bloc and it's not a definition of regions in the scenario but rather regions in a second-order region? Which makes more sense with the word I guess, but um, yeah, I can't rephrase the above now.

Post by **Balthagor** » Nov 27 2006

red wrote:...This blueprint...

There will be the ability to set multiple custom files, some may need to be "saved as" to make new versions of the map. As mentioned, none of this is implemented so I can't yet tell you how it will work (I don't even have all the details, they're buried in George's head...)

red wrote:...single-map approach means second-order regions will be built by grouping their constituent parts?...

Sort of, but this gets outside of what I can give details on. If I understand your example, Scotland would be "first order" and the British Isles would be "second order"? When playing within the block, you're one of the "first order" regions such as Scotland so there is no grouping needed. Using the existing "grouping" capabilites of the engine (see Adriatics scenario vs. Italy scenario in SR2010) we will be able to make the UK regions one region within a "Europe" block when modding assuming (not implemented, letting my mind wander here...) that the blueprint file follows current design plans. That's as much as I can say so far.

red wrote:...are you painting the terrain and lowest-level borders now, and then filling in the hexes for ownership/loyalty and regenerating varibles files for the upper-level scenarios?...

What I'm currently drawing would be region borders, not block borders. Block borders are not needed inside scenarios that deal only with the regions inside the block (think Italy map from SR2010 as an example). If it feels like I'm holding back some info, I am, as mentioned some of this is still on the drawing board.

red wrote:... I can't rephrase the above now.

That last sentence did loose me a bit, but I think I've answered some of what you asked...

red · Post by **red** » Nov 27 2006

Thanks, but more than anything now I just don't understand this about blocks: would a block be "UK: England, Scotland, etc." and another "France: Paris, Marseille, etc." and used in a scenario, or would it be a scenario file itself, saying "Europe: UK, Germany, France, etc."? In other words, does it define individual regions and you pair it up to a scenario, or is it like a GMC defining all of the regions in the scenario?

P.S., this'll teach you for sharing information.

Post by **Balthagor** » Nov 28 2006

No big deal, I'll just chose how much I answer

A block would be defined for map editing as a number such as 13 which contains regions. Our bloc 13 includes England, North England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, North Ireland. For the rest of the info and how it works in game, you'll just have to read future blogs

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Nov 28 2006

If I may add a bit here, to reduce the confusion...

A block is a group of countries. To use a SR2010 example, a scenario that you would load and play would be a block in SR2020. So, the countries that make up the British Isles are in the British Isles block. We had to create the term "block" because, as mentioned, we are creating one world map. During map editing we are bordering in all the regions that we want to model from the world. We have already have defined a block list - or a list of which regions are in which block. So as Chris mentioned for now, a region resides in a block. This template or block list is to be used for scenario play and for most campaigns. Modding comes into play by being able to shuffle around regions into new blocks or groups and then play that way. Here is an example... in SR2010 you could play the Central America map/scenario. And if you wanted to play it with some of the South American regions you could not. In SR2020 we'll allow a player to play the Central American scenario in the same way, but if you want, you'll be able to expand the scenario through modding and include some or all of the South American regions at the start of the game. The other side of the block system is that the whole world will be running. To what level the other regions are running while you are playing inside your block and how you can or can't interact with them is undecided. So if you are playing as Rome in the Italy block we haven't decided if you can interact outside of the Italy block.

To answer red's question directly... a block is group of regions as defined in a GMC file as all regions in a scenario. Any other questions?

red · Post by **red** » Nov 29 2006

Thanks, that about covers it for me.

BigStone · Post by **BigStone** » Nov 29 2006

Legend wrote: Any other questions?

Yes... (maybe a bit OT)
It's about resources...

Now you are working to "colour" the maps including the resources i'm wondering
if there is some space for the player to discover -hidden- resources... ?

Just to add some "exploration" elements to the game....

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Nov 30 2006

At this point we haven't discussed an idea like this. I'd imagine it wouldn't be to hard to do but it may have to wait until a later time. The easiest way I could see implementing this idea is to mesh it with the events thread that is being discussed right now... http://www.bgforums.com/forums/viewtopi ... highlight=

You could randomly get an email saying new resources have been found - and you click a button to see where they are.

But, as this seems like a bit off the track of where we are going with SR2020 I think we'll have to come back to this one.

tkobo · Post by **tkobo** » Nov 30 2006

I must admit, I dont think I understand the whole "block" thing.

A limit of 32 blocks doesnt mean a limit of 32 regions in a scenario right ?

Post by **Balthagor** » Nov 30 2006

tkobo wrote:...A limit of 32 blocks doesnt mean a limit of 32 regions in a scenario right ?

No, they are different things, but there is a limit of 32 regions in a bloc with means 32 regions in a scenario. Here I am using "region" with a very specific definition. There may be other AIs in a scenario but they would not be what we call regions. Again, I'm holding back some information here, including a precise definition of what it is to be a region vs being a block.

You'll have to give us more time on this...

red · Post by **red** » Nov 30 2006

Can you release a screenshot of the map when it's done being painted? You know, for giggles?

Post by **Balthagor** » Nov 30 2006

Not sure, we'll have to see what it looks like at that point. Also don't like to use screenshots that can come back to haunt us later. Even on the European release 9 months after the game came out here, almost one third of the sites we found used screenshots from alpha versions to promote the game. Not the fault of the community here but still a problem we need to figure out...

red · Post by **red** » Nov 30 2006

OK, though for my money, I would bet the hotshots that used alpha screenshots aren't likely to know the forums even exist