Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

Talk about on-going development of Supreme Ruler 2020 here. What would you like to see in updates or in a future Supreme Ruler title?

Moderators: Balthagor, Legend, Moderators

Locked
Message
Author
User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11943
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#1 Post by tkobo » May 14 2010

Just gonna list the easy to spot issues for now...

*The new stack rules for aircraft cause allied air units to spread out all over the place,including in an allies air fields.This means aircraft are farther from home often for no good reason.This also can have the effect of screwing over the ally, as he can lose that field for his own use.Causing further spread of his own units.

In the case i looked at,i found cuban aircraft as high in the US as fort brag.Rebased for no reason other than stack rules.
Also found english aircraft in texas,closest english base is in ireland.


*The airfield defense response seems to be smaller,and its definately less effective.From a fast look, this appears to be because the aircraft are spread all over the region,taking as many as 15 (new stack limit for air ?) out of the response area per field.


*You can no longer use air fields as staging areas for large aircraft attack forces.The stacking rule kicks in right after arrival and redisperses the aircraft all over hell and creation. :evil:
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11943
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#2 Post by tkobo » May 14 2010

tkobo wrote: *You can no longer use air fields as staging areas for large aircraft attack forces.The stacking rule kicks in right after arrival and redisperses the aircraft all over hell and creation. :evil:
This one is worse than i thought.It now makes grouping large amounts of aircraft in a battlegroup pretty much pointless,even to the point of being harmful.As your group will now be spread out over numerous airfields,many of which will be far enough away to use up enough fuel as to no longer be able to operate as a group.
Try this with 400 aircraft and see how useless it makes such battlegroups :evil:
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

User avatar
George Geczy
General
Posts: 2976
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: BattleGoat Studios
Contact:

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#3 Post by George Geczy » May 14 2010

Interesting point, though there's a couple of sides to it.

For one thing, a 14-unit stack often represents almost 300 individual aircraft, and by any reasonable air strip / airbase size I can't see more that number being able to be accommodated. So from the realism standpoint, I don't think this one "flies", so to speak...

But then there's the gameplay elephant. This one is tougher, since even in Update6 there were penalties to planes in overstacks - their circling used up fuel and gave them an efficiency hit, and made refueling after missions a bit of a mess.

Possibly an additional factor is that in SR2020 (unlike SR2010) you can't build a quick-build no-reserve "airstrip", so you can't quickly build a series of a half dozen front-line airstrips. Maybe bringing back a 15-day airstrip might be an answer, but there are other issues and exploits with that...

-- George.

User avatar
Ruges
General
Posts: 3407
Joined: Aug 22 2008
Location: Nearby, really I'll see you tonight when your sleeping
Contact:

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#4 Post by Ruges » May 14 2010

One of the things I do in my games, even before this change. was to put a 7 airstrips (and even more later in the game). all in connecting hexes. This way I could have all my planes that where in a battlegroup staioned togeather and on the ground. And I would put these major airports at strategic area's around the map. I basicaly tried to never excede the max amount of planes per hex.

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20746
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#5 Post by Balthagor » May 14 2010

tkobo wrote:*You can no longer use air fields as staging areas for large aircraft attack forces.The stacking rule kicks in right after arrival and redisperses the aircraft all over hell and creation. :evil:
Oh! Important note on this (haven't done the feature highlight yet);

* If you lock units from AI in RoE they will not rebase from overstacking!
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11943
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#6 Post by tkobo » May 14 2010

George Geczy wrote: But then there's the gameplay elephant. This one is tougher, since even in Update6 there were penalties to planes in overstacks - their circling used up fuel and gave them an efficiency hit, and made refueling after missions a bit of a mess.
-- George.
Which makes sense,hell in ww2 bombers occasionally hit each other when they dropped bombs,due to the amount of aircraft jammed into the formations.Not to mention the flight time lost while the flights gathered,which meant more time in the air and more tired crews.

What this particular negative effect does, is make managing aircraft in the game a full time job.It takes the micro for aircraft to stages even i dont want to go, and i like micro.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11943
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#7 Post by tkobo » May 14 2010

Balthagor wrote:
tkobo wrote:*You can no longer use air fields as staging areas for large aircraft attack forces.The stacking rule kicks in right after arrival and redisperses the aircraft all over hell and creation. :evil:
Oh! Important note on this (haven't done the feature highlight yet);

* If you lock units from AI in RoE they will not rebase from overstacking!
Yup, thats a tad bit important there ....... |O
Okay,that removes this as a problem for me. :D

Any chance of having it work off of the theatre buttons as well ?So i can shut it off for ALL aircraft at one spot with one button push ?
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20746
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#8 Post by Balthagor » May 14 2010

tkobo wrote:...Any chance of having it work off of the theatre buttons as well ?...
Which theater button?

Elastic band, pick air, go to RoE.
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11943
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#9 Post by tkobo » May 14 2010

The one where you allow by theatre,land ,air,naval, the AI to control/or not your units.(The three military initiative buttons)
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

User avatar
George Geczy
General
Posts: 2976
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: BattleGoat Studios
Contact:

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#10 Post by George Geczy » May 14 2010

tkobo wrote:The one where you allow by theatre,land ,air,naval, the AI to control/or not your units.(The three military initiative buttons)
Not in a single step. You could add units by class and then apply to the entire selection, but that wouldn't affect units in reserve etc.

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11943
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#11 Post by tkobo » May 14 2010

K, cant have everything i guess :-(
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

User avatar
Balthagor
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 20746
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Human: Yes
Location: BattleGoat Studios

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#12 Post by Balthagor » May 14 2010

tkobo wrote:The one where you allow by theatre,land ,air,naval, the AI to control/or not your units.(The three military initiative buttons)
We refer to Land/Air/Sea as branches. Wouldn't a theater be geographic?
Chris Latour
BattleGoat Studios
chris@battlegoat.com

User avatar
tkobo
Supreme Ruler
Posts: 11943
Joined: Jun 04 2002
Location: In a vast zionist plot ...RIGHT BEHIND YOU ! Oh Noes !

Re: Issues with new air rules per 6.7.63

#13 Post by tkobo » May 14 2010

Its also used for "branch",the Naval Theatre for instance is a common usage.
This post approved by Tkobo:Official Rabble Rouser of the United Yahoos
Chuckle TM

Locked

Return to “Development - 2020”